Letter Re: Selecting Retreat Properties–Pros and Cons of Buying Remote and Off Grid

Jim–

A note regarding my own experience with remote property ownership …I owned a wonderfully ideal 40-acre bug-out property in northern Minnesota for many years. It was very remote. Some of the closest neighbors did not even know there was a cabin back in those deep woods. It was backed up to a large, forested DNR property that was itself bounded by swamp. My other bordering neighbors were full-time residents who were kind of ornery (very protective of their property and thus unintentionally served as guardians of my property) and so that was a plus. We were a half-hour from the nearest towns. Several dirt roads eventually took us to our driveway which crossed over the land of a curmudgeonly Vietnam vet. The driveway was a mile long through his property and then on through the DNR land where in parts it traversed swamp. We had two locked gates on that drive, near and far.

I won’t go on reminiscing about the cabin, the off-grid electrical system, and all the rest of it here. (BTW, I bought this property shortly after first reading “Patriots” , so you certainly had a role in my thinking.) What I thought I could add to the current discussion is this:

1. If you are not a full-time resident of a property, even remote property–you will have uninvited visitors, “legitimate” and otherwise. We had several occasions of snowmobilers, ATV riders, and even a couple of burglary attempts. We were well fortified, so they were only attempted. (However, if they had been serious about getting some very valuable stuff on the premises, they could have done so with the proper preparation. We also discovered that we had a couple of visits while we were not there by the county tax assessor who hiked the one mile in when he could not get past the first gate with his vehicle.

2. Owning and maintaining a second comprehensive property, if you are not living there all the time, is an expensive and time-consuming proposition. In fact, it requires a demanding lifestyle commitment that, if you have other things going in your life, can get quite burdensome. Eventually, I made the decision to put all my time and preparedness money into my primary homestead (and in my preparedness business). I sold the property and all that went with it to a very lucky and appreciative buyer and used the proceeds to install an NBC shelter under a new addition on our home. We’re on the outskirts of suburbia and come hell or high water, we’ll make our stand here. It was really quite a relief to go this route, as I always worried about how and when we would be able to make the decision to head for the hills and whether it would be when everyone else was doing the same thing–making ourselves very vulnerable on the roads until we got to the property.
Furthermore, I had to admit that I’m not the young lion I once was, which had allowed me to think about dragging my family anywhere in a chaotic environment, unless there is simply NO option to stay put.

Bottom line–when someone asks me about bugging out vs. hunkering down–I advise that if at all possible, you live where your refuge is. There is an awful lot you can do to make your home your castle–wherever it is located. And you can do that for less money than buying, equipping, and stocking a second property. It also eliminates having to put you and yours at risk on the road between Points A and B (assuming you do have a secure Point B) at a time when there are going to be a lot of panicked and desperate people out there.
Blessings, – Vic at Safecastle

Economics and Investing:

From Eric in Tennessee: China ‘worried’ about US Treasury holdings. Reader Kyle D. sent the same link. Kyle quipped: “At least they didn’t say the dreaded ‘D’ word: Default.”

The Other Chris sent this: Homeowners See U.S. Taxes Rise as Property Values Sink Amid Deficits. “Gee, Wally, if property values are declining, shouldn’t our taxes be going down?”

Courtesy of Jay, comes: Glenn Beck’s The Inconvenient Debt. Jay’s comment: “[In this video segment,] there is great chart presented by Glenn Beck on the US money supply since 1929. It is shocking.”

DD forwarded this from MSNBC: Investors and homeowners woes continue

From Alan: Insurance “Guarantee Funds,” Another Mirage?

This was linked at The Drudge Report: In recession economy, students look to funeral careers

Items from The Economatrix:

Will The Stock Market Rally Stick, or Vanish?

Chrysler Faces July Cash Crunch Even with More Aid

G-20 Pledge Sustained Action on Financial Crisis

Fear Still in Focus After Strong Rally

Tight-Lipped US Firms Pay for Their Silence: Study

China Stimulus Hopes Push Up of World Markets

Bailout Money is Flowing Abroad

China’s Warning to the US: Honor Your Commitments

Obama: Crisis Not as Bad as We Think

Foreclosures Just Keep on Rising

Odds ‘n Sods:

Given the current ammunition and reloading components shortage in the US, this news couldn’t have come at a worse time: “Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.” This means that commercial reloaders will no longer have access to reloadable military surplus brass!

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I warned you, folks! AR-10 magazines are now pushing $90 each.

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Reader A.W. sent us two links on nut huskers/shellers: Where to buy one, factory made, and how to make your own (from Instructables)

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KAF sent this from the Protein Wisdom blog: You’ll get my heirloom tomatoes when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers

Letter Re: Idaho and Washington as Retreat Locales

Hi Jim,
I heard that Washington state joined the 10th Amendment movement. Funny, but we moved out of that state in February because it was seemingly so socialistic. Since then we’ve been actively looking for a small farm in Idaho but when I heard that news I wanted to see if you think it advisable to look into eastern Washington too. I’m amazed at all the properties for sale there. You can get so much more for your money there. But I wanted to check with you first. Thanks, – Evan S.

JWR Replies: Keep in mind that just a few legislators in Washington have joined the movement. The resolution is far from a “done deal”! The long-term trends for both Washington and Oregon are for continued Californication. It is hard to buck a major demographic change, so I expect the tax and gun laws in Washington to get worse in the years to come. Just moving east of the Cascades won’t help. It is the population weight of liberal western Washington that calls the shots. They look with disdain at eastern Washington as a “hick” minority.

Although land prices are generally lower in Washington, the property tax rates are much higher. I’d rather pay more at the outset, than be bled dry through the rest of my lifetime by high property taxes. My advice: Stick with Idaho!

Letter Re: Selecting Retreat Properties–Pros and Cons of Buying Remote and Off Grid

Jim:

To follow-up on your recent article, a very big “Pro” to buying off-grid land that was not mentioned is that you will not have strangers having access to your property. I am specifically referring to the Meter Reader for the utility company. I have “country” property on the Grid and have to furnish the Meter Reader a key to access the property to read the electric meter. The Meter Reader comes once a month to read the meter. I have not figured a way to deny them access. (Maybe you have a suggestion on how to prevent the meter reader from accessing the property) This stranger therefore has access to the property and also has a key to the gate and obviously has some knowledge of what is physically located on the property since he traverses the property to get to the meter. Being off grid puts you in a position to be able to keep everyone off of the property which to me carries a lot of value. – Carl D.

JWR Replies: Don’t forget the propane delivery truck. But at least that can be scheduled for once every couple of years, at your convenience, and you don’t need to give them a gate key.

Two Letters Re: Some Thoughts on the Survival Vehicle

Hi James,
Regarding the article “Some Thoughts on the Survival Vehicle” – I couldn’t agree more with the choice of an older Ford truck. I love mine. The only part I take exception to is converting permanently from electronic ignition to a mechanical point type distributor. I understand the EMP and other concerns, but there is a caveat readers need to be informed of.

Some/most Fords with 302 or 5.0 liter engines in the mid- to late-1980s and on were equipped from the factory with a hydraulic roller lifter camshaft. The roller cams are made of very hard steel, harder than older hydraulic “flat tappet” camshafts. On these “Roller Cam” engines the roller camshafts must be mated to a special hardened distributor drive gear (a hardened gear is on the factory electronic distributor) or the roller camshaft drive gear will destroy the softer standard (ductile iron IIRC) point type distributor drive gear in short order. I found out the hard (expensive)way!

I know that there are some aftermarket hardened distributor gears that might be retrofitted to a point type distributor. Some racers use bronze distributor gears with roller camshafts, but these softer bronze gears are only intended for racing and would have a limited life when used on the street.

One might be able to retrofit a standard “non-roller” camshaft to a new engine, but that’s likely beyond the skill sets of the average Joe.

There is another distributor related issue to consider – assuming you already have or will have a points type distributor. There is an aftermarket electronic ignition kit made by a company called Pertronix. The Pertronix Ignitor made for Ford V8 point type distributors installs in place of the original points. (Pertronix make models for many types of vehicles, not just Fords). All the Pertronix components install under the distributor cap. I’ve equipped 10 vehicles with these ignitions over the years with no ignition failures of any kind. My truck has had a Pertronix Ignitor since 1999 making it almost maintenance free for day-to-day operation, as opposed to points. If, God forbid, an EMP or other factor rendered the Pertronix inoperable I keep a set of points/condenser in the vehicle to reinstall in the original point type distributor. I also keep a spare Ignitor in a sealed metal cookie can (EMP proof). Assuming you know how to change a set of Ford ignition points, reinstalling the points will take about 20 minutes or less. (Maybe longer if the engine is hot 😉 ). I don’t work for Pertronix, I’m just a very satisfied customer. Food for thought.

Kind regards, – M. Artixerxes (a 10 Cent Challenge subscriber)

 

JR
Some of the March 12 comments in SurvivalBlog discussed belts, hoses and tires. Here is an additional consideration, and has served me well for 30+ years. I buy spare belts, hoses, vacuum lines and tires – before I use any of them, I coat the outside of each of them thoroughly and liberally with mink oil, all over the outsides and let “set up” for a few days before installing, or for longer term storage.

These items deteriorate from dry rot over time when exposed to harsh temperatures, and extremely small “cracking” appears, from which failure is born . Even yet-to-be-used spares deteriorate when stored in most instances. Mink oil coated/treated rubber extends the useful service life of these items far beyond expected shelf ( or use ) life, in my experience. I even work it down inside the treads on tires.For true spare use, I then wrap tires in plastic trash bags, or sealed bags for smaller items such as belt and hoses and assorted lines.

FWIW, the same idea applies to storing leather coats and boots. – KT in Texas

Economics and Investing:

Matt in Texas sent this “must read” link: Martin Armstrong: Is It Time To Turn Out The Lights? Here is a key quote: “We are standing on the edge of a cliff in the middle of nowhere. … We must ask our politicians a very important question: Where are you going? To date, the answers have been more of a riddle… In other words, we get a paradoxical explanation that is of something that is the opposite of what it suggests. … This Economic Depression is unstoppable, regardless what Government says. … Unless we start to get sane people with real live experience outside of the governmental bubbles, we may see the total meltdown of western civilization. Everyone will then blame the next guy which will lead to war.” Matt commented: “The ‘waterfall’ effect should send shivers when understood. No sector of any market will be unaffected by this engineered collapse. The scariest aspect is the pace or rate that it is taking
place. Rate is a big factor in momentum and the current momentum of this monster is building steam and strength.”

Micah and Jasper both mentioned: S.C. governor evokes Zimbabwe in arguments against stimulus

GG sent us this: Swiss central bank fires the first shot in the global currency war.

Items from The Economatrix:

Freddie Mac Asks Treasury for $30.8 Billion

Millions Are No Longer Millionaires

Fed Documents Provide Insights Into Bailout

Cost To Buy Protection Against US Default Surges

Obama, Geithner Get Low Grades from Economists

Futures Market Betting on Geithner’s Future (Currently, 22% of people trading think he’ll be out by end of year)

Small Manufacturers Cry Uncle

Citigroup CEO Tells Employees “We Are Profitable” Analyst:says it’s a P.R. gimmick

Can Two People Eat on $67 a Week?

Summers: “Excess of Fear” Must Be Broken

Jim Cramer, Jon Stewart Tangle on “Daily Show”

The Next Big Bailout Decision: Insurers

Central Banks Were January Net Buyers Of Gold

Sales of Guns, Ammo Still High

Wall Street Rises, Stocks Scoring Best Week Since Nov. What a classic Sucker Rally… Sell into this rally, folks. This may be your last chance before the next big leg down.

Odds ‘n Sods:

Kurt sent this: What sells in a recession. Kurt’s comment: “Hmmm, canning and freezing supplies up 11.5%. Maybe some of the sheeple are waking up.”

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Simon in England suggested this: “Jericho” gets second life — as comic book. Meanwhile, there is still talk of a Jericho feature film. (You can read the latest gossip at this fan site.)

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Responding to my recent mention of creative “bumper attachments” that fit is standard receiver hitch channels, Johnny Utah mentioned this none-too-subtle novelty accessory.

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For a limited time, MURS Radios is offering the new Dakota Alert MAPS units at a significant discount (27% off), for SurvivalBlog readers only. The MAPS units have a magnetic probe that can be buried underground to detect vehicular traffic and send a voice alert message to either the Dakota Alert base or hand-held units. A 50 foot direct burial cable is included to aid in placement and provide for a covert installation. These can be mixed and matched with other MURS devices to create a flexible detection and two-way communications system.

Jim’s Quote of the Day:

“You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.” – Vice Admiral James B. Stockdale, Stockdale’s Paradox

Notes from JWR:

Just two days left! The high bid in the SurvivalBlog Benefit Auction is now at $1,435. This auction ends at midnight (Eastern time) on March 15th. It is for a large mixed lot, which includes::

1.) A “be ready to barter” box of 38 full-capacity gun magazines, from my personal collection in JASBORR. This box includes: 4 – Used original East German 30 rd. steel AK-47 magazines in a “raindrop” camouflage pattern belt pouch, 12 – Excellent-to-new condition original Bundeswehr contract HK91 (G3) alloy 20 round magazines, 6 – Well-used but serviceable condition original Austrian FN-FAL steel 20 round magazines with cartridge counter holes, 10 – Used AR-15/M16 USGI (all Colt made!) alloy 20 round magazines, and 6 – Excellent to new condition original (Norwegian contract) Glock Model 17 9mm 17 round pistol magazines (early type, with “U” notch). All of these magazines are of pre-1994 manufacture (and hence legal to possess in New York.) These magazines have a combined value of approximately $700, in today’s market. Note: If you live in a state where full capacity magazines are banned, then you must choose to: refrain from bidding, or designate a recipient in an unrestricted state, or re-donate the magazines for a subsequent auction.

2.) A huge lot of DVDs, CD-ROMs and hard copy nuclear survival/self-sufficiency references (a $300+ value) donated by Richard Fleetwood of www.SurvivalCD.com

3.) A NukAlert compact radiation detector donated by at KI4U.com (a $160 retail value). 

4.) Five cases (200 pairs) of AMMEX Heatworks chemical hand warmers (a $182.50 value), courtesy of CampingSurvival.com

5.) A Brunton Solarport 4 (4.4 Watt) compact photovoltaic power panel and 6/12 VDC power adaptor set, including as USB power port. This is a $120 retail value, courtesy of Ready Made Resources.

6.) A Pelican Model 1400 waterproof case in olive drab, ideal for pistols, Starlight scopes, or communications gear. This is a $95 retail value, courtesy of Scorpion Survival.

7.) A Non-Hybrid Garden Security Collection, Garden Bean Collection, and your choice of a pint of fertile grains (Hull-less Oats, Spelt, or Winter Rye), a $50 + retail value, courtesy of Seed For Security.

Thus, this auction has a combined value in excess of $1,600. This auction ends on March 15th. Please e-mail us your bid. Your bid will be for the entire mixed lot.

—

Today we present another entry for Round 21 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest. The contest prizes include:

First Prize: Two transferable Front Sight  “Gray” Four Day Training Course Certificates. This is an up to $4,000 value!
Second Prize: A three day course certificate from OnPoint Tactical. This certificate will be for the prize winner’s choice of three-day civilian courses.
Third Prize: A copy of my “Rawles Gets You Ready” preparedness course, from Arbogast Publishing

Round 21 ends on March 31st, so get busy writing and e-mail us your entry. Remember that articles that relate practical “how to” skills for survival will have an advantage in the judging.

How Many Magazines is Enough?, by Cowboy

It’s nice to know how many guns you have to share amongst those mags, or better yet how many magazines do you have to share amongst multiple like model rifles or pistols for that matter. That’s how I count them to see if I feel like I have enough or not. Plus, I like to count in the possibility of adding another gun or two into that particular category at a later date since buying extra mags is always cheaper than adding a new gun. If nothing else, extra mags are a great investment for later sale or barter especially if the current snake oil salesman in charge signs a new assault weapons ban into law.

As an example, I got caught with just a couple of AK and AR mags when the Assault weapons Ban (AWB) took effect in 1994. This was before the “preparedness mindset” for me which came later in 1996 when I found JWR’s novel draft “The Gray Nineties” [–an early draft edition of “Patriots” ]. I was not nearly so gun market savvy as I am today. I was the typical gun owner/collector with one each of several guns without any thought to caliber consolidation or commonality of magazines for logistics purposes. In the same vein I may have had a couple 20 round boxes of 223 or 762×39 ammo laying around with really no thought of having anymore than what I needed to go to the range one time for about an hour’s worth of shooting. In hindsight it was absolutely shameful–like 99% of the sleeping gun owning public.

Then the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 was signed into law and there was a run on certain guns, ammunition, and magazines–much like we are seeing now–that swept the country overnight. Back then, I was way behind the curve on that and I got caught off guard. At the time $6 for a nice but used USGI M16 magazine was common and a new mag might set you back $10. Overnight if you could even find some for sale you had to pay double or triple that. Same with Glock magazines as another example. They went from +/- $15 for a new one to $40-$45. [JWR Adds: In 1999, I saw gun show dealers asking and getting $75 each for 13 round Glock 21 magazines, and $150 each for 33 round Glock 17/18/19 magazines!] This market environment went on for the 10 year life span of the AWB until it “sunsetted” in 2004. Prices went down and availability went back to normal until just before the 2008 election. Since 2004 I have been eagerly buying all the magazines I needed, or thought I might ever need in a lifetime. I learned my lesson. In anticipation of the election I was counting on the ignorance and gullibility of the general populace so I made a last bulk purchase of magazines. Good thing too! Just this past summer (2008), I bought a little over $1,000 worth of various magazines, and in particular Glock 17 magazines from my favorite place. At that time they were $16.99 all day long. The election came and now they are $24.99 from the same place, and even so they are still the cheapest I can find among my many regular sources. More recently, SIG magazines for have gone up at most places for instance. Pre-election they usually went for right at $30. One of my regular places has gone up a little bit to $33, but I’ve seen that most other places have jacked them up to $40. It was and is the old “short supply and high demand” syndrome, due in part to all the panic buying that could have been avoided if done a little bit at a time like I’ve done over the past five years.

As bad as the prices got then, what’s going on now is far worse in terms of availability. Having lived and financially suffered through the ’94 AWB, I still can say I’ve never seen anything like this before. This is easily twice as bad as the ’94 AWB, and no legislation is even close to being signed into law yet. I lived and paid dearly through the ’94 AWB and I feel like I can speak on the topic of what’s happening in the gun market right now with some authority. In other words if you find a deal where they haven’t gouged the prices, then I recommend buying extra beyond your immediate needs. Knowing what you know about your arsenal of freedom, I’d say stop buying guns and concentrate on ammunition and a few more magazines as a priority. You can’t drive a Corvette if you can’t afford the gas, so to speak. The mistake they made in 1994 was not going after the ammunition and they realize that now. If the majority of gun owning America is still anything like I was back in 1994, any possible self defense in a civil unrest situation would be short lived without adequate ammunition supplies already in place. And who’s got time to reload the one or two magazines they got with the rifle in the middle of a fire fight? When it comes to magazines, more is better. I suspect this mood has improved among gun owners in general and that the lesson of the ’94 AWB still smells fresh to some. As evidenced by my coworkers who come to me for ‘gun advise”, I still believe the majority are gun rich, but magazine and ammunition poor so to speak.

Now that I’ve gone on entirely too long you should have noticed the theme: Buy more magazines where you need them and even if you don’t as long as the prices aren’t gouge level. Buy more ammunition for your major battle rifle caliber at every opportunity because it certainly isn’t getting any cheaper and availability is scarce. Look at Ammoman.com and AIMSurplus.com. They are just plain out of all the common caliber ammunition. That is very telling, but it also concerns me the most. In case you feel overwhelmed at the very expense of it all, I give the example of a co-worker who recently got on the same page via my Christmas gift of JWR’s novel “Patriots” .. On pay day this coworker without fail goes to the local Horse Tack & Gun Shop and buys two or three twenty round boxes of commercial .223. Whatever he can afford that pay day. Although he was quite behind the 8 Ball in the beginning, he has over 500 rounds now and he just picked up three extra M16 magazines. His little bit at a time strategy is working nicely, and I have seen his overall mood improve as his supply grows along with his confidence. He has also has been using the “copy can” method at the grocery store and his progression in that department has really improved his state as well.

As a general recommendation I advise the following with the caveat that you add the same minimum amount of used generic (cheaper) magazines for range use. I know it’s extra money but you can’t go wrong by then adding a second batch of new factory magazines as you can locate and afford them until you’ve doubled that original minimum. I can assure you they will make a nice investment later down the road. Keep those brand new magazines back in the “break glass in case of emergency” box. That will be your long term storage box that you don’t touch until TSHTF. Buy .50 caliber ammo cans for a safe place to store magazines, with a bag of desiccant thrown in for good measure. I’ve actually vacuum packed mine for long term rust free storage. Keep the used but reliable generic mags about for immediate availability and for range use. [Some snipped, for brevity.]

As a absolute minimum I recommend the following. Hopefully you are in or can get into a position to consolidate caliber and like model firearms if for nothing other than a logistics standpoint. Having to find, purchase, and store several different calibers, and multiple types of magazines can make an already expensive proposition downright discouraging.

(10) Ten brand new magazines per main battle rifle (This under most circumstances should equate to basic load + spares)
(7) Seven brand new magazines per pistol (This also under most circumstances should equate to basic load + spares)

and,

(1) Main Battle Rifle per adult or responsible teenager
(1) Main Sidearm per adult or responsible teenager

And of course, in my opinion one of the most often neglected items: professional training, and appropriate web gear to carry those magazines and your sidearm.

Three Letters Re: Advice on Silver or Gold Jewelry for Barter?

Hi –
I just read your comments regarding not holding jewelry for precious metals holdings. As one who makes his living (and has done so for decades) in jewelry, coins and guns, I fully agree with your comments. I have had many customers in over the years that had decided that jewelry was a good place to invest in precious metals, and after I went over it with them, they have all switched to good products.
There are some very good fake jewelry out there these days that will fool many, even with the use of a stone and acid. I learned the old fashioned way, using straight nitric acid rather that the acid mixes used today, which are much more fool-able and can tell much closer the karat and whether or not an items is solid, filled or totally phony. I also learned diamonds using just a loupe rather than with an electronic probe. And I agree with your comments about gemstones as well – they look great in the bottom of an aquarium but unless I know I can sell it to someone, I would never put my own money out for them.
You might go over (or you may have already in the archives) some of the other good silver and gold products to buy and hold, or I would be happy to write something up for you. I give this advice out daily in my shop, where I do guns and coins. Many of my customers are buying both, and food storage is increasingly a topic of discussion as well. I do a lot of digging and searching for ammo, so I am one of the very few places in town with ammo on the shelf and guns on the rack. – G. in Las Vegas

 

Dear Mr Rawles,
I just read the letter about using jewelry for barter on your web site and think your answer is right on. I am a jeweler in the Midwest and would like to add to your comments.
If someone wanted to sell jewelry now and buy items that would be easier to barter with during a post-dollar society here are some tips and insights.

1. Never send your jewelry away to a company advertising cash for gold on television. These people are crooks and you will get next to nothing for your gold.

2. The next worse place to take your jewelry for sale would be a pawn shop.

3. A jeweler or coin dealer is a better bet and will generally give you more money for what you have. Go to an independent jeweler, not a nationwide chain. Check with a couple of jewelers if you don’t have one you trust.

4. To get top dollar for your jewelry try selling it yourself. This has some drawbacks, it will take time and is a serious breech of OPSEC. Some jewelers may be willing to sell nicer pieces on consignment, this eliminates most of the OPSEC issues.

I can tell people how much they should get from a jeweler and why. Expect to get 50-65% of the actual market value of gold for your jewelry. Why so low you ask? There are a couple of reasons.
First the jeweler isn’t buying your gold, he’s buying your gold’s future. He doesn’t send the gold in to the refiner the day you sell it, he sends it in when he has several ounces to send at once. If the market falls between the time you get your money and when the gold is sent in the jeweler could loose money.
Refining gold isn’t free. First the package must be insured and shipped to the refiner. The refiner charges a fee to assay the gold, to determine its precious metal content. Then the refiner takes a cut off the top. The price varies from refiner to refiner but they generally get between 7-10%.
And finally the jeweler has to make a profit to keep his doors open.
A better bet for old, unused jewelry might be to have it melted down and made into something you will use.
Some things that will come in handy if you want to take in jewelry as payment in a post-collapse setting. Get an acid test kit and learn how to use it. These kits will give an approximate karat quality for 10-14-18k gold. Below is a list of how much gold is in each quality of gold.

10k = 41.66% gold (sometimes stamped 416)
14k = 58.5% gold (sometimes stamped 585)
18k = 75% gold (sometimes stamped 750)

It is illegal to put a quality mark on anything less than 10K gold in the USA. If you run across anything stamped 8K or 9K it probably came from Mexico and should be considered suspect. Always file the piece to be tested in an inconspicuous place, removing just a bit of metal, and put the acid on that spot. This will cut through any possible plating and give a test on the metal underneath. Get a scale, I’m sure most of you have a grain scale for measuring out powder charges, this works fine for weighing gold, just convert to ounces and remember that precious metals are weighed in Troy ounces not Avoirdupois ounces. [14 versus 16 ounces per pound.] A gram or pennyweight scale isn’t expensive and every house should have one. After weighing its just a matter of figuring out how much gold is really worth. Also get a good, strong magnet and check everything with it. There are lots of frauds out there, anything that sticks to a magnet is gold plated and should be considered junk.

A word of caution about gemstones, don’t give any money for gems unless you know exactly what you’re dealing with, and never trust an appraisal. Tell the seller that you aren’t interested in the stones and they can remove them from the setting if they want them. Don’t remove them yourself. Also don’t expect to get much for stones in jewelry you are selling unless they are exceptionally rare and valuable. Jewelers usually have many carats of diamonds on hand, they don’t need yours, and if they do buy them the stones will sit in inventory for months before being used.

Be careful dealing with jewelry after TEOTWAWKI. I know what I’m doing around jewelry and I’d much rather deal in coins or other forms of wealth. Its easier and faster and I could use the coins to trade with almost anyone. Remember, just because you are willing to trade for jewelry doesn’t mean that someone will [later] want to take it from you in trade. Take note of what my old boss used to say, “Gold is a wonderful thing, but you can’t eat it and it doesn’t keep you warm at night.
Keep your powder dry, – Kestrel

 

Hi Jim,
I have recently started a business buying and selling unused/unwanted jewelry, coins and PMs (precious metals). One thing that I have learned through the start-up process, is that in a TEOTWAWKI situation, being able to identify PM coins or jewelry’s value will be a skill that could really come in handy. Having scales, acid testing kits, and electronic testing equipment such as the ones I bought from igem.com, could really give you an edge when the balloon goes up. I bought the GLR-24 tester that can determining the karat content of a piece from 6-24 karat gold, and can also detect the presence of platinum and silver. My acid kit (which only runs about $20), can identify gold as well, but the process is bit more time-consuming, however the advantage is that I will not be entirely reliant on a battery-operated electronic device when/if it breaks later on down the road. Using an acid testing kit takes practice, and you would be wise to learn how to do it now, and not try to figure it out under more stressful times that are sure to come.

I also acquired a gem tester in the kit (that detects diamonds, moissants, and zirconium gems), although the value of these items would be suspect at best, as not many would trust their authenticity, and thus, they would be hard to utilize as a form of currency (but having the ability to test them can’t hurt either as an opportunity could present itself I suppose). In the kit I also received an electronic scale that weighs in ounces, grams, and grains and a lighted loop for reading the stampings.

Keep in mind that people can stamp whatever they want on metals or jewelry, but that does not make it authentic! Coins are even forged a lot (read: China) in today’s world. The only way to truly determine something’s worth is to have the means to test it!!! I would also recommend that all survivalbloggers have a print-out of weight and measure conversion charts, and that you become familiar with the process of calculating the worth of 10K, 14K, 18K and 24K gold. It is also important to know how to calculate the value of coinage and know their purity content for their respective years they were minted. Remember, fiat currency will probably become a thing of the past, and bartering skills as well as the ability to identify what the other guys stuff is worth will be key to fair trade. – Jeff in Michigan

JWR Replies: Thanks for that info. Here is some additional data from one of my early FAQs that folks should keep on hand both in electronic form, and in hard copy. Pack those pages with your touchstone, scale, Fisch calipers,and acid test kit:

Silver dollar bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 765 ounces of silver
Thus, if the “spot” price is $5.20/oz., a $1,000 bag would be worth $3,978, wholesale. (Or think of it as 3.97 times the face value of any single coin.) Small quantity purchases (less than $10 face value) get the buyer the worst rate (currently roughly 5.5 times face value.) Large purchases (multiple $1,000 bags) allow the best rate–roughly only 4 or 5% over the melt value

90% .50/.25/.10 bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 715 ounces of silver

40% half dollar bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 296 ounces of silver

Conversion Formulas:
Grams to pennyweights, multiply grams by .643
Pennyweights to grams, multiply pennyweights by 1.555
Grams to troy ounces, multiply grams by 0.32
Troy ounces to grams, multiply troy ounces by 31.103
Pennyweights to troy ounces, divide pennyweights by 20
Troy ounces to pennyweights, multiply troy ounces by 20
Grains to grams, multiply grains by .0648
Grams to grains, multiply grams by 15.432
Pennyweights to grains, multiply pennyweights by 24
Avoirdupois ounces to troy ounces, multiply avoirdupois ounces by .912
Troy ounces to avoirdupois ounces, multiply troy ounces by 1.097
Avoirdupois ounces to grams, multiply avoirdupois ounces by 28.35
Grams to Avoirdupois ounces, multiply grams by .035

Gold Purity Standards (by Karat):
24 K = 99.9% fine Pure Gold. Too weak for jewelry, but ideal for industrial use
23.5K = 97.92% fine
23 K = 95.83% fine
22.5K = 93.75% fine
22 K = 92.67% fine Some coin gold, though not that of the U.S., is 22K
21.6K = 90.00% fine The approximate purity of U.S. gold coins
21.5K = 89.58% fine
21 K = 87.50% fine
20.5K = 85.42% fine
20 K = 83.33% fine
19.5K = 81.25% fine
19 K = 79.17% fine
18.5K = 77.08% fine
18 K = 75.00% fine The highest grade of gold normally used in jewelry.
17.5K = 72.92% fine
17 K = 70.83% fine
16.5K = 68.75% fine
16 K = 66.67% fine 1/3 copper. This grade is commonly used in dental work.
15.5K = 64.58% fine
15 K = 62.50% fine
14.5K = 60.42% fine
14 K = 58.33% fine
13.5K = 56.25% fine
13 K = 54.17% fine
12.5K = 52.08% fine
12 K = 50.00% fine Half gold, half copper. Used extensively in low priced jewelry. (Will show brownish tinge in reaction to Nitric Acid.)
11.5K = 47.92% fine The percentage of copper now exceeds that of gold.
11 K = 45.83% fine
10.5K = 43.75% fine
10 K = 41.67% fine Used in some low-grade jewelry such as class rings. Shows a marked reaction to Nitric Acid.
9.5 K = 39.58% fine
9 K = 37.50% fine Not much more than one-third gold.

Silver Purity Standards:
.9999 fine “Pure Silver”
.9584 fine “Britannia Silver” Often used in manufacturing.
.9250 fine “Sterling Silver” Normally stamped “Sterling” or “.925”
.9000 fine “Coin Silver” Some antique items are marked “Dollar” or ” D” or “.900” or “Coin Silver” to indicate they were made from melted coins.
” German Silver” is +/- 97% base metal and only +/- 3% silver, and thus has no bullion value.

Exactly what silver or gold coins will bring you in barter will depend on the times. Immediately after a collapse, coins may not be worth much. As law and order is gradually restored, they will probably be worth more and more. The bottom line is the old legal maxim: “The value of a thing is what that thing will bring.”

Economics and Investing:

I was interviewed again briefly by the folks at the Fox Business News “Happy Hour” television show. The topic was, of all things, “buying off grid rural property.” Folks are waking up!

From H.P.D.: 8,000 Earmarks.

Kevin A. spotted this: Freddie Mac Lost $265 Million Per Day. “The main skill required to run Freddie Mac seems to be the ability to light three one thousand dollar bills on fire every second of every day. If these guys keep it up, they may even be able to get a job at AIG one day.”

The Other Chris sent this Rise in foreclosures ‘a shock’, February saw an unexpected jump in foreclosure filings as the weak economy puts more pressure on borrowers.

From GG: UBS suggests gold has potential US$2,500 per ounce upside

Luddite Jean in England sent this charming news: House prices ‘could drop another 55%’ and leave Britain bankrupt

Items from The Economatrix:

The International Financial Institutions are Overwhelmed

Fed Reports Record Fall in Household Net Worth

US Mint Gold Eagle Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coins Temporarily Suspended (Again)

Half of Americans Just Two Paychecks Away from Hardship

Jim Rogers: Let AIG Go Bankrupt, Not America

Crime, Corruption, Collapse On Wall Street

Dow Chemical to Sell Assets, Cut 3,500 Jobs

India Can’t Afford Junk Rating

G20 Deal at Risk as US-Europe Rift Grows

Dollar Defies Recipe For Currency Collapse

The 283 US Firms Most Likely to Fail

Debt And Taxes are Killing Landlords

LIBOR’s Creep Shows Credit Markets at Risk of Seizure

Odds ‘n Sods:

Rob C. sent us a bit of good news: Vehicular open-carry expanded in Utah.

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HPD forwarded this item from Police State Britannia: Revealed: police databank on thousands of protesters

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Appleseed shoots are ramping up! There are a huge number of “shoots” scheduled all around the nation, with many on our around Patriot’s Day weekend (the weekend of April 19th). For example, Southern Arizona will be hosting its first ever Appleseed Shoot and Rifle Clinic.on April 25th and 26th, in Sierra Vista. The cost is $70 (pre-registered) for a two day rifle clinic and free for all children under 21, women, and active duty military.

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Two recent news stories: Multiple deaths reported in Alabama shooting spree and After attacks, Europe hurries to tighten gun laws. Hmmm… why is it that when there is a “lone gunman on anti-depressants, run amok”, the shooter so often ends up conveniently dead? Cui bono? Any bets on whether or not these events will be used will be used as a pretext to renew the 1994-to-2004 Federal “Assault” weapons and magazine ban?