Note From JWR:

The winner of Round 6 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest is R.E.M., for his article “Maximizing Food Storage Life.” The second prize goes to R.J.C. of Pennsylvania, for his article “Water, Water Everywhere.” Congratulations to both of them. You gents will be contacted by e-mail to arrange for delivery of your contest prizes.

Round 7 of the contest begins to day, and end on the last day of November. The writer of the best non-fiction article will win a valuable four day “gray” transferable Front Sight course certificate. (Worth up to $1,600.) Second prize is another copy of my “Rawles Gets You Ready” preparedness course, generously donated by Jake Stafford of Arbogast Publishing. If you want a chance to win Round 7, get buy writing and e-mail us your article. Remember that the articles that relate practical “how to” skills for survival will have an advantage in the judging.

Letter Re: Legality of Converting Replica Blackpowder Revolvers to Fire Cartridges?

Jim, I recently watched the 1985 movie ‘Pale Rider‘ with Clint Eastwood and noticed in the movie that he used what appeared to be a 1858 Remington pistol, I didn’t notice if it was a cap and ball or if it was converted to use conventional ammo. Where can you get those cylinders you mentioned? Seems like a very cool pistol advertised at Cabela’s. But wouldn’t BATFE be all over a loophole that allows a non-FFL firearm to be converted? Just curious..- Jason North Idaho

JWR Replies: Here in the U.S., if it is the end user/owner (a non-FFL holder) that is converting a blackpowder replica to take modern metallic cartridges (via a replacement cylinder) , then it is perfectly legal. Nice loophole. (Note, however, that is the Federal law. Your State and local laws may vary.) IMHO, the highest quality conversions are the Kirst conversions for Rugers. (They also do Colts and Remingtons.) FWIW, I like their Ruger Old Army job the best. If I was going to buy a blackpowder revolver with a cartridge conversion in mind, then that is the model that I’d start with.

Two Letters Re: Chevron’s Deep Oil Strike in the Gulf of Mexico

Mr. Rawles
I read your blog often, thanks for the entertaining and informative site. I would like to comment on David from Israel’s post regarding Chevron’s oil strike in the gulf. I work for a very large E & P company and have many years experience in drilling and production. There is nothing holding back the exploitation of this field except time to build the facilities and and acquiring the drill ships (cost $500,000+ per day for the ship) to punch the holes. We routinely produce gas and oil from 24,000′; the depth of the water does not really matter any longer. The bottom hole temperatures and pressures are the main factors; and we have equipment to handle those at the depths Chevron is drilling. We should see production from this field in approximately five years; time for pipelines and sea bed production facilities to be put in place.
I am currently drilling 28,500′ on land, hence higher temps and pressures that Chevron is seeing on their well in the Gulf. However the general public simply does not realize the amount of money and the logistics it takes to perform these duties. We currently have falling oil and gas prices and the doubling and tripling of service company charges to the oil companies; you will start to see drilling rig idle at $50 per barrel oil and $5.00 [per gallon] natural gas. The comparison that David made ” cruising altitude for an airliner, compare that depth to the 69 foot depth of the first commercial oil well in the USA.” holds some insight the 69′ well could be drilled with a wooden derrick and steam power, today we have high tensile alloy, exotic fibers and 5,000 hp diesel electric motors; also computer power than all but the largest Universities and probably more people with doctorate degrees than those same institutions. We routinely spend $5,000,000 for a 15,000′ gas well! Higher fuel prices are here to stay. The SUV and the McMansion will ensure that. Thanks, – RJ

JW,
The letter you posted from David in Israel regarding the recent Chevron discovery in the Gulf is simply and flatly false. I have worked in the oil patch here in Texas for decades, although costly it is routine to not only drill to that depth but also easily produce and refine oil from that depth. He simply has zero knowledge of routine oil production processes. That well will be in production within 24 months if not sooner. In addition, the Gulf and other areas hold equally large deposits of both crude and natural gas. Cost is the only factor in determining whether or not a well is viable. – Doc in Texas

Odds ‘n Sods:

Mountain Brook Foods of Tracy, California has announced a special one month sale just for SurvivalBlog readers. From now until the end of October, the following discounts will be available for in-stock items only:
20% off Orders of $100 to $249
30% off Orders of $250 to $499.99
40% off Orders over $500, not to exceed $2,500.
To place your order go to www.mountainbrookfoods.com. There you will see there full line of storage foods and books. Note, however, that their web site lists only their standard pricing. To get the SurvivalBlog October special pricing, enter “SurvivalBlog” as the coupon discount code. If you have any questions about this special offer or any their products you can contact Mountain Brook at: support@mountainbrookfoods.com or call toll free: (877) 668-6826.

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The Werewolf (SurvivalBlog’s correspondent in Brazil) mentioned that he stumbled across some interesting reading at The Memory Hole: De-classified back issues of The Cryptographic Quarterly. This will probably only be of interest to readers that have a background in SIGINT, cryptology, or cryptography. It certainly brings back some memories for me. (I guess that wasn’t sufficiently degaussed when I was read off of my SCI compartments, 15 years ago!)

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A nasty new highly drug resistant strain of tuberculosis is popping up worldwide, including the United States.

Note From JWR:

Round 6 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest ends today! The writer of the best non-fiction article will win a valuable four day “gray” transferable Front Sight course certificate. (Worth up to $1,600.) Second prize is a copy of my “Rawles Gets You Ready” preparedness course, generously donated by Jake Stafford of Arbogast Publishing. If you want a chance to win Round 6, e-mail us your article, ASAP. Round 6 will end on September 30th. Remember that the articles that relate practical “how to” skills for survival will have an advantage in the judging. The following article is the final entry in Round 6.

Stockpile Fire Safety Considerations, by AVL

Hazardous materials storage laws can affect your intended stockpile. The survival mantra is “Be Prepared!” to this end; it is often necessary to have stockpiles of materiel that may come in handy in case of an emergency. Most conversations about such stockpiles talk about food, water, clothing, and of course gasoline, ammunition, gunpowder, primers etc. While there are currently no limits as to what quantity of food, water, and shelter you can store, gasoline, ammunition and firearms are another story entirely.
What is considered hazardous material?
A hazardous material is anything that may adversely affect your safety or the safety of those around you. Normally this might be considered acids, flammables, strong bases, oxidizers, fine particulates (asbestos) or radioactive materials.
Hazardous materials fit into a number of classifications based on their affect on health, flammability, and chemical reactivity. This is defined by the NFPA 704 diamond (National Fire Protection Agency) that you will often see on buildings indicating the danger posed by chemicals contained inside.
Why should I be concerned?
A number of the materials you may be considering stockpiling, or have already stockpiled may fit into one of the above categories. Substances such as gasoline, gunpowder, primers and small arms ammunition are considered hazardous. Because of this, most local, state, and even federal governments have set limits as to how, and how much of each material may be stored.
Gasoline, smokeless powder, primers, and small arms ammunition are all flammable and can be dangerous in the presence of heat, sparks or rough treatment. Gasoline, gunpowder, and primers should not be stored together! Gunpowder over 20 lbs should be stored in a portable magazine; this makes it mobile, safe, and legal. Store primers in a similar manner and in small quantities to avoid chain detonation.
Don’t forget, there may be other things in your emergency stock that can cause fire. Potassium Iodate is an oxidizer and should be stored away from flammables.
Due to the regulations, you must carefully consider how you will store these valuable commodities in a way that will not put your property in danger of fire, or government seizure.
The regulations
Smokeless Powder:
At present, few local and state governments set limits on storage of small arms ammunition, or reloading components (Shell casings and projectiles are not counted, just powder and primers). However, the federal government through the NFPA has set limits.
Transportation in private vehicle: 20lbs – 50lbs in a magazine with walls of 1” thickness
Storage in private residence: 20lbs – 50lbs in a magazine with walls of 1” thickness
The NFPA does not seem to have any limits on the quantities of primers stored or transported; however, certain states do impose limits such as Massachusetts, where it is illegal to posses more than 1000 primers without a license. However, the license is reasonably priced.
Other states impose possession limits on small arms ammunition; the most draconian was again Massachusetts, with a limit of 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition, 10,000 rounds of center fire, and 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition. While neither a federal, nor a preponderance of state regulations could be found. It should be expected that quantities exceeding these will likely garner significant attention from authorities. You should check your local laws regarding this matter.
Gasoline:
Gasoline is a fairly easy commodity to store, put it in an airtight container and put it away, rotate every few months. However, the Uniform Fire Code (UFC) sets limits on how much you can stockpile.
Gasoline is required to be stored in UL listed containers (Underwriters Labs). Most commercially sold containers meet this requirement and are available in 1,2 and 5 gallon sizes. The next size up container is a 60-gallon drum. However, UFC does not allow the storage of more than 25 gallons on your premises. [JWR Adds: The limit cited is for private residences. Many farms and ranches have commercially built exterior gasoline tanks–either above or below ground–in capacities that range up to several hundred gallons or even larger. Consult you state and local laws before buying a tank.]
Solutions for the savvy stocker
Based on these limits, there is a fair amount of flexibility as to what you stock. 50 lbs of gunpowder will make 7500 rounds of .308, 15000 rounds of .223 or 80000 rounds of .45 depending on how you load. So keeping your larger cartridges as your stockpile of loaded ammunition gives you a lot more mileage.
For example, keeping 10,000 rounds of .50 BMG loaded with a powder that could be used in .308 and .223 would be ideal, this way it can either be ammunition, or just a storage container. [JWR Adds: Pay close attention to powder burning rates and pressure curves. Powder that is suitable for large volume cases is not always appropriate for large cartridges. Follow published loading data scrupulously!] Only primers must be stockpiled, which are small, lightweight, and can be spread out and hidden in many areas easily. Limits are not imposed on reloading components such as cases or projectiles, so these can always be stored without a hassle.
Currently, the regulations are on a per-premises basis. The regulation isn’t clear whether this is one property, or a single dwelling. However, it opens up the possibility of storing multiple caches on any property you own. This could provide several lifetimes worth of ammunition if done right.
Gasoline presents similar issues, however, unlike gunpowder and primers, gasoline is bulky and doesn’t lend itself to being broken up. However, the UFC does not place any stipulation on carrying fuel in vehicles. The ideal solution here is to have several large vehicles with large tanks which in an emergency you could quickly move the gasoline into your bug-out-vehicle, storage tank for your generator, or just drive off with it in the vehicle.
Conclusions:
Survival is a game that goes back to the origins of life itself. As organisms became more advanced they were able to ensure their survival through behavior. The strongest survival advantage in mammals is gained through cooperation and division of labor.
The ultimate stockpile you can create is to have your friends and neighbors stockpile in the same way you do, when the balloon goes up, and there’s no one around to tell you, you’re not allowed to have 26 gallons of gas, trading elements among your friends and neighbors can give you the things you need, and give them the things they need.
While cooperation is essential, operational security is also necessary. Pick and choose those you wish to be part of this carefully. Perhaps recommend quantities to associates, but do not comment on your own preparations. The first thing that happens when you are prepared and others are not never leads to a happy ending. – AVL

Letter Re: 12VDC LED Christmas Lights for Emergency Lighting

Jim:
On a lark, I order two strings of these 12 VDC LED sort-of Christmas lights. I ordered one string of blue for the porch (really easy on Night Adapted Eyes and one string of white.
Wow! Really neat. Low current (i.e.: extremely low power consumption) and just plain handy. I’m just guessing but I figure two strings would run for 6 weeks on a fully charged car battery.
Nice for those “loss of electricity days/nights” and a lot cheaper than the camping/emergency lighting systems. I think it is a reasonable purchase.Best Regards, – The Army Aviator

Odds ‘n Sods:

Cathy Buckle’s latest “African Tears” letter from Zimbabwe is a compelling read. (The letter dated Saturday 23rd September 2006). I am surprised that the the economy in Zimbabwe has not fallen into total collapse. For now, it is somehow managing to stagger along on inertia. Please pray for a change of government there.

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SurvivalBlog reader”Felix” mentioned this story: The Italian parliament has passed legislation allowing people to shoot robbers in self-defense.

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Reader S.H. mentioned another cool project at the MAKEzine blog: Geiger Counter Modification (a V-700 upgraded with digital readouts, etc.)

Three Letters Re: Questions on the Pickup Truck as a Multi-Purpose Retreat Vehicle

Dear Jim and Survival Blog:
I’m sure the question of the best truck for a survival retreat will generate a large response. By trade, I am an engineer; however, I currently am working as a maintenance person for a large camping facility in upstate New York. In my experience with equipment and vehicles, I would have to say anything with a Cummins 6B or 4B diesel power plant will earn the owners respect for the amount of work it will do and the long life you can expect from the unit. I live next to a medium size farm operation and they have several tractors powered by a Cummins engine and they regularly get 15,000 hours before any major work needs to be done to the motor. In my estimates, this is the same as driving 1,500,000 miles (yes, that’s 1.5 million) on the highways and by-ways. Anything built to last that long should be looked into. Most people know that Dodge is the main supplier of Cummins powered vehicles to the masses; however, the Cummins engine can also be found in Ford medium and heavy duty trucks and buses. If you are mechanically inclined, buy an early Cummins powered Dodge with less than 300,000 miles, replace the transmission with a later NV5500 or NV6500, or even an Eaton-Fuller 5-speed. Four-wheel drive is a personal choice. A lot of people get good performance from a differential locker on a two wheel drive truck, and there is less rolling weight to boot. Even a two-wheel drive truck can be set up to plow with the right equipment and weight over the rear axle. I do not have the experience with plow vehicles, so I will bow out for now. Thanks to you Jim for al the work you do. – AJR

 

James,
I’ve also been researching diesel pickups, though my objective is to convert one of them to Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO). With that in mind, I contacted the good folks at goldenfuelsystems.com for recommendations. They have a page with comments about the reliability and strengths/weaknesses of different engines and fuel systems. IMHO, the best bang for the buck is going to be the Ford diesel pickups made before 1994 (pre-Powerstroke). There is no computer (as best I can determine), they have dual fuel tanks (better for WVO conversions), and they have reliable fuel pumps that are not expensive to rebuild if the need arises. Dodge trucks equipped with Cummins engines appear to have a stellar reputation, but the used truck prices are commensurate with that reputation; and the fuel pumps are far more costly to rebuild. Both Ford and Dodge only put diesels in the 250 & 350 series trucks, not in the half-ton 150s. Judging by the trucks I see advertised for sale, longevity on these units runs well over 200K miles, with several of them over 300K and still commanding a healthy price. – Dave S. in Missouri

 

Hi James,
In response to David J.’s questions I offer the following:
1) I would suggest attempting to find a truck that is already equipped with a plow, perhaps a used municipal truck. This makes for a better “package deal”. Equipping an older truck sans plow equipment with plow equipment could prove to be a challenge, not to mention expensive. While some older aftermarket equipment exists, it is harder to get from a stocking dealer because the demand has waned – most of their stock is for the latest vehicles. If you buy the equipment used, how do you know you have every part you need and that some components aren’t missing? Mind you, the equipment for older trucks can be found, but it will take some effort. While a municipal vehicle likely has high mileage, having the engine/transmission components rebuilt will give the vehicle a known date/mileage of the start of a new service life and most likely some form of brief warranty. Since the engines are used in a number of different truck/van models and not just snow plows, rebuilding the original diesel engine and transmission will likely be more economical than finding new or used plow equipment for an older truck as the engine and transmission service parts will be commonly available than model specific snow plow components.

2) My own preference is Ford, but I prefer to avoid the 1995 model year and later Powerstroke diesel models for a endurance/survival application, leaning toward the 1994 and older normally aspirated 7.3L diesels. The Powerstroke engines are indeed more powerful but do have engine management systems – computers (EMP vulnerable) – one failed sensor can cause some problems. The older 7.3L Ford diesel is mechanical except for the starter, glow plug circuit and injection pump solenoid – as memory serves. The injection pump solenoid is used to turn the engine fuel supply off when you turn off the key – thus the engine stops. Another strike against Powerstrokes is while Powerstrokes are more powerful than standard 7.3L diesels since they are equipped with a turbocharger (and in theory more efficient), that same turbocharger can be a hindrance if its seals fail at an inopportune time. A friend who’s a mechanic that specializes in Ford Powerstrokes drove his 1996 F350 supercab from SE Texas to Colorado on an Elk hunting trip. The seals on the turbo failed along the way and the engine ended up pumping its lubricating oil (the turbo is lubricated by an engine oil line) into the engines intake tract because of the failed turbo seal. At least my friend knew what to do – purchase a sizable quantity of engine oil and continue adding it until he could get to area where he could order/replace the turbo! He was not happy with the experience. In a non-turbo diesel this won’t happen, thus it is one less concern. The older Ford diesels often have Ford C6 automatic transmissions, which are excellent and have no electronic controls on them other than perhaps a neutral safety switch. The drawback with the C6 is it doesn’t have overdrive. You can add a very tough Gear Vendors overdrive unit ($3,000 but you get what you pay for) to the C6 if you want overdrive on an older model. I would trust a C6/Gear Vendors overdrive equipped diesel over one of the later Powerstrokes that has a computer controlling the transmission shift points. With a manual transmission the only significant concern is clutch wear and lubricant level. I would go with either an F250 or F350 model. F350 will carry the most at the sacrifice of ride quality.

3) I won’t claim to know what the “best” diesel made is or was, rather, I think it is more of an issue what one’s preferences/intended uses are. I am admittedly Ford biased as that’s where my experience is. GM and Dodge have very fine engines as well. All of them have their benefits and their quirks like any man-made creation (kind of like discussing the best .308 battle rifle). This to me is what’s more important. If a diesel is properly maintained it should have a service life that can approach/surpass 300,000 miles. Change the fuel filter more frequently than the manufacturer recommends. Clean fuel is life to an injector pump and injectors. When changing fuel filters I fill the fuel filter with automatic transmission fluid (ATF). ATF can be safely burned as a fuel in diesel engines and has the added benefit of being a detergent that will clean the injection pump and injectors. I like to add STP Diesel fuel treatment and also one quart of ATF to the fuel tank every third fill up. Change the oil and filter regularly, preferably every 3,000 miles. I prefer Shell Rotella diesel oil as it has a very high zinc content. Zinc is an anti-wear additive that is being reduced/removed from engine oil specified for automobile engines (can you say EPA?). In fact, I recommend Shell Rotella diesel oil (note to self – stock up on Rotella) for older gasoline engines with flat tappet camshafts, as do many aftermarket camshaft manufacturers. The flat tappets benefit from the zinc additive. I prefer to change the coolant and thermostat annually, as I’m convinced this makes the water pump and other cooling system parts last longer.

4) When looking at a used diesel vehicle, if possible, start the engine from a cold start. When the rings and or valve seals begin to wear, visible exhaust smoke manifest when the engine is cold and lessens/subsides as the engine warms up. A seller who wishes to hide the fact that the vehicle smokes excessively may try to warm it up before you arrive. (He may also do this innocently). Also check for fuel leaks. Diesel fuel will turn coolant hoses into useless goo. The diesel fuel contaminated hoses will “swell up like a toady-frog”, then burst. Resist the urge to drive a diesel with a fuel leak – have the leak repaired. The first thing I do to a diesel with an unverifiable service history is replace the fuel filter, then coolant and coolant hoses. Once you acquire the vehicle of your choice, keep a spare starter, glow plug relay and alternator in “the recently mentioned on the blog” homemade Faraday cage – a used/discarded microwave oven(!) – and keep it in the back of the truck in a Rubbermaid Action Packer.

Hope this helps. When writing this I had a BFO about another diesel vehicle that might be ideal – an ’89 Ford E350 diesel 17″ box (moving) van I saw for sale recently. Perfect for that trip to the big box store (or that ultimate trip out of Dodge)! Kind Regards, – M. Artixerxes

Odds ‘n Sods:

From Lew Rockwell’s site: Why Bush Will Nuke Iran, by Paul Craig Roberts

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Reader C.M. sent a link to a news story about a power failure in Bangladesh. C.M.’s comment: “Less than two days without electricity and a mob has formed to burn institutions. Fascinating how quickly
it can all come apart.”

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As I predicted, silver and gold are starting to recover from their dips earlier in the month. Buy on the dips!

The Real Estate Bubble Bust — Where and When is the Bottom?

Here is your daily dose of Doom und Gloom (DUG)TM: I was recently asked by a consulting client where and when the U.S. real estate market will likely bottom. Clearly, the market has until recently been frothy, with all the signs of a speculative bubble. Lots of people that had no business doing so bought “spec” houses. Many of these buyers were under-qualified, often stretching the truth on their mortgage applications when they described their assets and incomes. Many houses were bought with interest only loans. They purchased second, third, or even fourth homes with the goal of flipping them for a quick profits. Now the klaxons have sounded and the spec buyers are crowding the exit doors. Its a Hollywood epic in the making. Recent news reports have confirmed that we are well beyond the to. Bloomberg reports that U.S. home resales are falling. This is the first clear drop in a decade. Meanwhile, the inventory of unsold homes in the U.S.–both new and existing–is climbing. This unsold inventory has grown enormously. In fact the inventory has more than quadrupled in some markets. This has all the makings of a spectacularly declining market in near future. When hardly anyone is buying, the law of supply and demand dictates that prices must fall. I am still pointing to the Spring of Aught Seven for the outright panic and housing market collapse

Based upon the currently overvalued prices (since prices have galloped far ahead of the currency inflation rate), my educated guess is a bottom in 2008 or 2009, with overall declines of around 35% from the recent market highs.(To be more specific: Down 10% in the the least inflated rural inland regions, and down perhaps as much as 60% in the most over-valued metropolitan markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Miami. The biggest declines will surely be on the coasts. The old investing axiom “a rising tide raises all ships” also works in reverse. Let’s face it. The tide has been rising for 10 years in most markets, and to mix a metaphor, the pendulum needs to swing the other way for a while.

My advice: If you own a “spec” house, then you should have been watching the market more closely and already sold it. If you can presently sell it for “break even” or even something close to that, then do so, as soon as possible. Ditto if you have a vacation property that you do not intend to keep for your lifetime or that you don’t intend to employ as a survival retreat. If you own rental properties, you should sit down and dispassionately do the math. Consider the potential market decline, and what that will do to rent rates in your area. If house prices drop 30% then rents will drop 30%, or at least close to that. Count on it. If rents do indeed drop and you anticipate a negative cash flow, and you can’t afford to ride out a negative cash flow for 18 to 36 months, then it it is better to cut your losses and sell your rental houses(s) now, while you still can.

If you have a variable rate mortgage on any property, convert it to a fixed rate loan, muy pronto, even if that means that your monthly payment is slightly higher. When the rates rise–and trust me, they will–folks with ARMs are going to get hurt badly when their rates are reset. I call this “ARM twisting” syndrome. I foresee that an interest rate jump of 2 or 3 percent will be a very painful ARM twisting exercise.

If you are comfortable where you are, then stay where you are. Hold on to your cash. Watch and wait for the bottom, and then perhaps do some bargain hunting. Who knows? You might be able to find a nice self-sufficient rural retreat property at the bottom of the market, for roughly 60 cents on the dollar. Don’t buy real estate now unless it is in a relatively safe (read: non-coastal) market and you can buy it at a bargain price from a “motivated” seller. Build an anticipated 35% drop in the market into your purchase calculations. That should limit you to buying only genuinely under-valued bargains.

What if you aren’t comfortable where you are?. What if you presently own a house that is in a vulnerable market and you know that for family, health, or employment reasons that you will be moving within the next three years? (I’m talking to you, Fred.) Then my advice is to take advantage of the market gains and sell you your house. Sell now, and move into a rental house. Yes, I know this is a hassle, but someday you’ll thank yourself for doing so. As previously mentioned in this blog, you might even be able to sell your house to a property management company, and rent it back.

The old saying goes, “buy low and sell high.” In the near future I believe that you will see a lot of your neighbors trapped by their debt burdens and forced into doing just the opposite. It won’t be pretty.

Letter Re: Deciphering MRE Date Codes

My thanks to R.E.M. for his hard-earned experience on rotating food stocks. Perhaps I can ease his frustration a bit about not reading the packing date of USGI MREs – there is indeed a numbered code packing date on every MRE case, the outside of the newer USGI MRE retort packages and best of all, every individual item in each MRE package. You can go to the www.mreinfo.com web site for the whole story, but to condense the code for you, say you have a four-digit or longer number on the outside of the package – take the first number to mean the last number of the year the item was packed and the next three numbers to mean the day of the 365 or 366 day calendar year. For instance a date code of 6097 means that the item was packed on the 97th day of the year 2006, or April 7th, 2006. Knowing this code can be very handy and expedient when you are browsing cases of MREs at a gun show or individual items at a surplus store. You can refer to the web site above for more detailed information and shortened or extended storage times of MREs dependent on the temperature. The web site also has a sub-page for foreign GI MREs, and info on them, for overseas readers. regards, – Redclay