In part 1 of this article about how I sued my neighbor, I described the details of how my young daughter and I arrived home to witness a dog attack of our chickens. I tracked this dog through the snow and had an uncomfortable encounter with this neighbor, to whom I explained the situation and asked for compensation. One of the men there pulled his finger, like a gun, and pointed it at me. Subtle intimidation ensued, but I didn’t back down. The end result was his refusal to pay for the expense of my chicken, so I took him to small claims court. This meant that I had to hire someone to serve him and I had to prepare evidence, as the burden of proof was on me. Now, let me tell you what happened on the day of the court hearing.
My Day in Court
Have I mentioned that I’m Old School? On my day in court, I wore a sports jacket and other clean, ironed clothes and sat waiting. The Bailiff made sure my phone was turned off. Even though the dog owner hadn’t shown up yet I was nervous although well prepared. If he didn’t show up I’d win. At just three minutes to the start of the hearing the man burst through the court door with an alarming familiarity. He must have been wearing his best worn out t-shirt and unwashed jeans. I said, “Hello” to the man. The bailiff told him to turn off his phone and that the judge would be in momentarily. He refused. It was his personal, private property phone and he had a picture of the dog on it. At that moment, the judge entered and we stood.
Burden of Proof on Plaintiff
The judge explained the rules of the court and that the burden of proof was upon me. He asked the purpose of being there that day. I explained, with the help of an outline that was prepared in advance. It described the incidents of that fateful day and was written shortly after it happened so the details were accurate and complete. I couldn’t help but describe in a Detective Joe Friday manner out of long habit. I explained that there was a statement from my daughter, a copy of the police report, printed photos of the victims, a post from Craigslist showing the value of similar birds, and lastly, printed (time/date stamped) game camera photos of the dog during the attack. The dog’s owner was given a chance to review the evidence, which he did dismissively before the bailiff handed it all to the judge. As the judge was viewing the evidence, the man’s phone began to ring and the argument between the bailiff and the man began anew. The judge began asking questions and the bailiff stepped back from the argument. She was not impressed with childish behavior. I answered his questions respectfully. Now the judge was looking at one photo and asked the man to describe his dog, which he did. The man argued with the judge. He claimed his dog is not the one in the photo from the game camera. He told the judge that every dog in the area looks exactly like his.
The judge had had enough and began to make his ruling. He couldn’t finish without the man arguing with him. The ruling was in my favor. The man now had to pay for the birds, court fees, and for serving him the papers. The total he must pay was now twice what I originally asked for to cover the loss of property. The man was outraged. He jumped up yelling at the judge and stormed to the door where he dramatically turned and points a threatening finger at me. “You better stay off my property!” He departed even more dramatically than he entered with the bailiff in hot pursuit. The judge had already left the room. I was alone with the court clerk, who is an older woman with a librarian air about her. She was pleasantly looking at me. “Did that really just happen?”, I asked. “Oh, yes,” she replied. “I’m just going to go now.” She nods with a kindergarten teacher smile and says, “We are all done.”
My head was turning in an involuntary and slight “no” motion as I walked to the exit. My life had become a television show and probably a bad sitcom at that. “You can’t make this stuff up,” I thought as I approached the outside doors. Two women were waiting there for me. One was the bailiff and the other was building security. “It’s okay; they are gone now,” they advised. The bailiff was looking at me. I think she wanted to know if I was a cop or military, but she didn’t ask.
I was happy there was no gun battle over the chickens. It would have been a very different day in court between the judge and me. The media would have convicted me outright. You would have heard about a creepy chicken farmer who guns down poor people desperately surviving on welfare. You would have heard how he used a high-powered, fully automatic, laser chainsaw equipped handgun with grapnel hooks and a high capacity magazine holding bullets to murder people who were just getting their lives turned around after three generations of surviving on government assistance. Furthermore, you might have heard how something, anything, must be done about this exact scenario, because it happens hundreds of times a day across the nation to our exclusive, national shame.
In summary, if you must go to small claims court, make sure it’s the last resort. Remind the judge that you tried every other reasonable approach before taking the police department’s time as well as the court’s time. Explain how you tried to work with the other side.
Write out a statement as soon as things happen. Document the events, and be honest with yourself about the facts. The judge must determine who may be lying or if the parties just see things differently.
Witnesses and Proof
Witnesses are better to have in court than a written statement, so the judge can ask questions. Keep your emotions in check and don’t make the case overly personal. Be respectful to everyone and wear clothes that project respect. Gather information about the other party so you can file your paperwork accurately. Note addresses and names in particular. Research the rules of proof, and provide that proof in a manner acceptable to the court.
Pay attention to the time lines of the court and have your paperwork properly filed on time. The burden is on you, so make sure to follow through. It may take a long while to have your day in court and the other party may drag things out as long as possible to discourage you. Don’t let the “small” in small claims court fool you. It will take time and preparation to make your case.
Also, remember to turn your mobile phone off in court.
SurvivalBlog Writing Contest
This has been part one of a two part entry for Round 77 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest. The nearly $11,000 worth of prizes for this round include:
- A $3000 gift certificate towards a Sol-Ark Solar Generator from Veteran owned Portable Solar LLC. The only EMP Hardened Solar Generator System available to the public.
- A Gunsite Academy Three Day Course Certificate. This can be used for any one, two, or three day course (a $1,095 value),
- A course certificate from onPoint Tactical for the prize winner’s choice of three-day civilian courses, excluding those restricted for military or government teams. Three day onPoint courses normally cost $795,
- DRD Tactical is providing a 5.56 NATO QD Billet upper. These have hammer forged, chrome-lined barrels and a hard case, to go with your own AR lower. It will allow any standard AR-type rifle to have a quick change barrel. This can be assembled in less than one minute without the use of any tools. It also provides a compact carry capability in a hard case or in 3-day pack (an $1,100 value),
- Two cases of Mountain House freeze-dried assorted entrees in #10 cans, courtesy of Ready Made Resources (a $350 value),
- A $250 gift certificate good for any product from Sunflower Ammo,
- Two cases of Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs), courtesy of CampingSurvival.com (a $180 value), and
- American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) is providing a $300 certificate good towards any of their DVD training courses.
- A Model 175 Series Solar Generator provided by Quantum Harvest LLC (a $439 value),
- A Glock form factor SIRT laser training pistol and a SIRT AR-15/M4 Laser Training Bolt, courtesy of Next Level Training, which have a combined retail value of $589,
- A gift certificate for any two or three-day class from Max Velocity Tactical (a $600 value),
- A transferable certificate for a two-day Ultimate Bug Out Course from Florida Firearms Training (a $400 value),
- A Three-Day Deluxe Emergency Kit from Emergency Essentials (a $190 value),
- A $200 gift certificate good towards any books published by PrepperPress.com,
- RepackBox is providing a $300 gift certificate to their site.
- A Royal Berkey water filter, courtesy of Directive 21 (a $275 value),
- A large handmade clothes drying rack, a washboard, and a Homesteading for Beginners DVD, all courtesy of The Homestead Store, with a combined value of $206,
- Expanded sets of both washable feminine pads and liners, donated by Naturally Cozy (a $185 retail value),
- Two Super Survival Pack seed collections, a $150 value, courtesy of Seed for Security, LLC,
- Mayflower Trading is donating a $200 gift certificate for homesteading appliances, and
- Two 1,000-foot spools of full mil-spec U.S.-made 750 paracord (in-stock colors only) from www.TOUGHGRID.com (a $240 value).
Round 77 ends on July 31st, so get busy writing and e-mail us your entry. Remember that there is a 1,500-word minimum, and that articles on practical “how to” skills for survival have an advantage in the judging.
Now that you won, how do you collect?
Heh, heh, exactly. It may end up being a Pyrrhic victory. He also has to worry about retribution.
That’s not to say he shouldn’t have done it; I can’t make that call for him. But you should understand these dynamics before undertaking such a course of action.
Onlooker: Thanks, I learned a new word today and improved my vocabulary!
“A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has also taken a heavy toll that negates any true sense of achievement.” Source: Bing
Pretty easy to collect…you put a lien on any property he owns.
Precisely what property do you expect this gentleman owns worth placing a lien on? Adding insult to injury is how these things escalate. I’ve seen it with my own 2 eyes, one thing leads to another and in no time you have 2 families that are sworn enemies for years and no one even quite knows why.
You can place a lien on his real property or any vehicles he owns. Alternatively, at least in my state, you can have his wages garnished if you know where they work. I wouldn’t give a wit about whether or not this idiot hated me or not, because let’s face it, they already do. But I certainly agree that I’d be on guard for any future shenanigans and let the butthead know in no uncertain terms I wouldn’t hesitate to contact the sheriff or police.
If you don’t keep a neighbor like this in check then you get stepped on over and over.
For what it’s worth, I live in the country and have for years. I’d have shot the dog and buried it.
Neither of us knows what property the “gentleman” has, but, likely the guy owns cars and you can sure put a lien on those. You can put liens on most tangible property. Check the laws in your state.
Turn it over to a debt collector,they are professionals at making this dirt bags life hell until they get the money(with extra fees added). This is also known as a force multipler,multiple points of attack from a single position
I won an award in small claims court 22 years ago. I have never seen a penny of it and the interest is has accrued to be nearly three times the original award. 10% per annum.
One other thing – in our state, you must re-apply to the same judge every 10 years, or have the award thrown out. Make sure you have the date of the judgement recorded so you don’t forget.
Congratulations and good luck.
Excellent job Sir! Unfortunately and I have learned this from experience with the same caliber of neighbors. I think it will escalate. I hope your not going to be facing a harassment campaign as my family did. If you don’t already get some good night vision capable cameras, get some. I wish you the best and pray you and yours stay safe. But be ready, do not let your guard down. Post the property and document all encounters and incidents. This can get very ugly…
In addition to my comment above I feel I must add. Be armed wherever you go, condition I and totally concealed. You disarmed before confronting them. That could have gone really bad for you. Never threaten, remain the good guy. Under NO circumstances go back on their property to confront them without law enforcement. They could shoot you and simply lie about what happened. They will try to “bait” you. Maybe try to get a charge on you. Never let emotion influence your decision making. Be ready.
Yeah, waiting for part three…..
Would love an update to the story? Did you collect? What is the relationship like with that neighbor? Did they retaliate somehow?
Unfortunately collecting after the win is simply additional time, money and work, so whether you proceed depends on the amount of the judgement you received. I also went thru a similar process. Like the plaintiff above, I carefully documented all the facts, timeline, etc. – so at a minimum to win have all this buttoned down without any emotional component as described by the plaintiff, plus show up groomed, dressed respectfully and always be polite.
In my case the defendant had one of his proxies, show up the first and second times in court claiming hardship, etc., and so the court granted a delay/ extension. On the third court date, I again showed up and presented my case to the judge. The defendant again sent a proxy claiming hardship again. At this point I reminded the court that 2 extensions had previously been granted. Fortunately the judge had had enough and agreed. Since the proxy sent by the defendant had nothing prepared in defense, I easily won and the judge granted my claim plus court and filing costs.
Sadly as has been pointed out this does not compel payment! Usually the loser has 30 days to pay (but it depends on state law). Obviously in my case the guy had no intention of paying, so on day 30 I was at the courthouse with all the documents including the judgement and filed the paperwork to have the court issue a ‘writ of garnishment’ (may also be called a writ of execution).
With this writ you can now get the sheriffs office to collect. However!!!
Sadly part 2 – no my lowly serf your pain and work are not complete, there is more for you to do!
You see your local sheriff office (while quite capable of confiscating your money via traffic tickets, shooting you or your dog, or doing other rights violations that you and I will be jailed and punished for, without consequence), are incapable of actually serving the writ without very very specific instructions:
To have the sheriff execute the writ as a bank levy, you must also provide them:
The exact name of the defendants bank
The exact name on the defendants bank account
The exact defendants bank account number
Obviously if the defendant is a complete dirt bag, this may be a complete waste of time as he probably doesn’t have any money in an account, so a levy may be the only option assuming he has any property to levy.
Fortunately in my case I knew this dirt bag had money, he just didn’t want to pay me and thought there was no way for me to collect. He certainly wasn’t going to provide me with any banking information.
What he did not count on was that there was enough money in the judgement for me to pursue collection and I was confident that human greed would assist me! In this case I was right. Here’s how you get the bank information ( this is what I did )!
I checked with a couple attorneys that I have done business with in the past ( i.e. – they knew me! ) and I explained I had a private business matter than I needed some investigative assistance with and asked for recommendations on good PI’s. Just to be clear I was actually completely transparent about my problem and what I needed. Most quality attorneys will totally understand and I was provided with a PI that could get this done quickly and for a small fee.
Within a couple days the PI had all the info and actually provided the information and writ to the sheriff office, which executed the writ and levy and I soon had my money, much to the surprise and outrage of the dirt bag I had sued. Which made it more satisfying!
Since you are probably curious as to how the PI got the information, well these guys ( the good ones anyway) are very resourceful with contacts all over the place, plus “social media” is never your friend. So there are many entry points into your “not so” private life.
Now most people have electricity, so this what worked in my case. This dirt bag was actually still paying his electric bill with a check, so a contact who has a friend, who has a friend who worked in accounting at the electric company was slipped some coin to pull up the dirtbags payment check and a mobile phone text photo later we were off to the races!
Legal and/or ethical. Depends on where you are standing in this issue. In my case this is not how I was raised, but…
This is not the republic I was brought up in, this is not the justice system I was promised, etc. the dirtbag set the rules to the game, so I simply played by his rules. YMMV!
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
As I stated in my comment yesterday, the courts will not compel payment. You will not see a dime of that money. What’s more, you’ve made a dangerous enemy, and the only thing I can see you gained is vindication that you really didn’t need. I say again, when he offered you chics in exchange in your initial encounter, the wise thing would’ve been to accept that and put the issue to bed. Instead you used the court system frivolously (in my opinion) to the end of having created an adversary who may not hesitate tonexact revenge, and you still have no chickens. So far as I can see, this is a net loss for you my friend….
In my early morning pre-caffeinated state, I read “this is a hot mess” instead of “this is a net loss”. I think we’re both right….
Perhaps you could could put a lien on the five cars that don’t run in his front yard but it would have to be mowed to find them. They could disguise your property as a ‘grey’ area. The chickens, it was bound to happen sooner or later. In old country we shoot dog and impale, but being a nice guy it ain’t gonna happen … yet? Better, buy a Rhodesian Ridgeback or two. You pay for what you get, they’re great dogs. Welcome to the SHTF people.
(On a respectful note, proactively learn and take valuable lessons from farmers protecting themselves in other parts of the world.)
Recommend some game cameras focused on your main property in case they come to visit while you are away.
Arlo camers…I would buy them today!
This is the kind of stuff that turns out badly. Don’t sue your neighbors over a few chickens. I understand the loss of property and the law allows this sort of thing, but suing your neighbor in this situation never turns out good in the end. These are the sort of neighbors that don’t get over it. You can’t reason with backwoods hillbillies. I would have just not done anything the first time. The second time- that dog wouldn’t have made it home. The end. No hard feelings for the next 50 years- all the neighbors know is that the dog never came home. And you can bet your butt they’ll never ask.
But when you sue- they will never get over it- and you have to live in fear of what they’ll do or their kids will do to retaliate for the next 50 years. A bullet in that dog’s head could’ve solved everything.
I had a couple wild dogs come through my property and attack my dog. I didn’t have a gun on me, but I chased them through the woods with a big stick. I never caught them, but they never came back. They knew. My wife was like, “what would you do if you had caught them?” “killed them. Wild dogs are useless.” We had to take our dog to the vet for stitches and antibiotics. He had a hole in his ribs for a few months.
My 80 year old neighbor shot two dogs a few years ago when they attacked her chickens. “dead dogs tell no tales,” she said.
Good to hear a good guy wins every now and then. In today’s court, you never really know what kind of judge truly wants truth, or wants to help “the poor bastards”. You know the ones mooching off of our tax dollars. I’m proud to hear you stood your ground. The neighbors know not to mess you, without you taking action! I’m sure you are probably like me that you try to talk and fix situations before they get out of hand, and if things escalate you have every right to do what ever the situation calls for to keep you, your family, and your property from harm. You my sir can sleep well at night. GOD bless you and your family. I’m proud to call you my fellow American. Folks like you are why I did 20 yrs in the Army. Thanks for making all my time worth it!!!
The social status of the dog owners is continuously mentioned, and to a judge with a social-justice agenda looking upon their state and condition, being dragged into court by a clean-cut well dressed man from a perceived higher class, might have resulted in a different outcome.
My approach to that would be to dress neatly (probably a long sleeve shirt and tie) but not extravagantly.
Another textbook example of “there is very little justice in the justice system.”
Thanks for sharing your experience.
So, what is your take away? What did you learn about yourself? Given the chance, would you do anything differently?
If this is a neighbor that everyone is having problems with, then I think this was the right way to go. If constantly taken to court and other legal measures are taken, then eventually he will leave. Voluntarily or to jail. Sounds like is a dangerous nutjob that needs to go, but the other neighbors have to be in agreement to use the legal system.
You are correct. We’d never be on each others Christmas card list. The police are happy to see a man with the moral and physical courage. Safety and security is an individual responsibility and the police can only do so much.
Encouraging a petty criminal with acceptance is wrong and has led to this. It’s become known that other neighbors have shown mercy and got hit again and again for years so inaction has made a run-in between us inevitable. I won’t be bullied in my own home.
This isn’t the first time his dogs have killed my animals by any means. Once they know the location of poultry they keep coming back.
Respectfully, I think you failed by first not knowing your neighbors upfront. Keep your good neighbors “close” and your worse neighbors even closer. Second, you let something worth a few dollars put you and potentially your whole family in danger. Third, you went unarmed. Fourth, you did not take his offer of chicks. Fifth, you involved law enforcement and the court system- all of which should be avoided whenever possible especially with you neighbors.
I respect the way you handled yourself in court. But I’ve been in this exact circumstance, if you listen to one of my now deceased neighbor, perhaps even on the other end of something similar. You have to use discretion, wisdom and know when to battle and when overlooking an offense can be the best solution.
Thanks for the respect and let’s clarify a few things.
First, we neighbors are quite a distance from each other. Not everyone knows each other. Bad actors are not social with anyone who might learn too much about their activities. They look at everyone as prey until they learn that you aren’t.
Second, my family is not in danger. I’m a protector and that’s all to be said on that.
Third, I was armed.
Fourth, his offer was not serious. He wanted to get rid of me and it’s worked for him before. If I had accepted the chicks offer he would not respect me for being a fool.
Fifth, The Deputies are glad to have an ally at last. Fear and inaction is poor, ineffective advice when dealing with certain personalities.
If they were close enough to track a dog back to they were close enough to know. I mean this respectfully as I read in a comment in yesterday’s replies you are a combat vet. While not a fan of the wars themselves you were in, I’m extremely thankful for your service and all men who are willing to put their life on the line for our freedom and liberty (or what remains of them). If you are such a protector that that is all that needs said, who did a scoundrel dog get your chickens. If a dog can get your chickens, trust me someone who puts thought into can certainly hurt your family. Over a few dollars worth of chickens.
I won’t argue the point about his offer, you were there and you are probably right but I wouldn’t of let it come to that to begin with.
Lastly, glad those deputies are your friends. How many minutes away will they be when seconds count?
You sound young and prideful. Both are good things if tempered correctly and applied with wisdom and discretion.
Thank you again for your service
My sentiments exactly!
Whoops…that reply was meant for Robert. He said it better than I could. A litigious man will always be so.
I agree with comments regarding vigilance. I do not agree that this absolutely will escalate.
Bullies are cowards. Alcohol can provide liquid courage. I agree it is best not to light that staggering firecracker.
Getting the chicken killer on public record is good for the community.
I went through a similar exersize right down to the court room threats. The Judge and court personnel were much more familiar with my neighbor than I realized. It was clearly evident.
In the OP case, I would bet that was not that mans first visit to court and he does not want to go back.
I’m not certain where you live, but I’ve lived in the backwoods of the Deep South, the prairie towns of the Midwest, and have now settled for good in the hills of north central TN/south Central KY. Let me assure you, the mindset of hillbillies, rednecks, and hicks are all the same, and the author has most assuredly made an enemy who will hold this grudge to his deathbed. Now, whether that leads to a bullet in the back on TEOTWAWKI + 1 is another matter. But he’s made a dangerous enemy over a few chickens….
“he’s made a dangerous enemy over a few chickens….”
Why can’t more people here grasp what you are saying?
I think I would have employed the three S solution on the dog.
3. Shut up
Bottom line, did you get your money?
Not worth the wasted energy. The dog would have come back, so shoot the dog, bury it and the problem is solved..
What would Sun Tzu say about this? Perhaps, The best battle is the one you don’t fight? Were you right in being wronged absolutely but as the old saying goes don’t crap in your own backyard. As people trying to prepare for SHTF, WROL, and/or TEOTWAWKI it is important to know your community, good bad and ugly. By the sounds of the article these folks did not have a lot of money. Hey did offer you chicks which perhaps what they could afford. You had an opportunity to perhaps not make an “enemy” in this situation. The other issue is this conversation should have been done with the man’s friends there watching it. From a psychological standpoint he is going to want to “save face” in front of his friends. As preppers we should be looking for opportunities to make friends and learn the resources in our neighborhood. Imagine if you took his offer of chicks and then struck up a conversation about chickens and perhaps asking what breeds he likes, perhaps asking about getting a rooster from him in the future. In my job I have to work with people I might not like personally and I usually am trying to get them to do things they might not want to do. Learning how to make positives out of negatives is a great skill to learn and use. You were right but was it worth the fight and possible ramifications? Not saying we should lay down and roll over but if we react with the I’m right, your wrong, testosterone fueled response we might win the battle but start a war. Learn to make lemonade!!
I sure am proud of you, A.E.! Stand your ground, sir! Quite brave sir, quite brave. Bravo, cheerio.
Satisfying to win in court? Yes. Was the dog owner a jerk who “deserved it”? Most likely, yes. Was the dog owner in the wrong? Again, yes. Were you in the right to take him to court since he wouldn’t take responsibility? Yet again, yes. We need to ask ourselves, just because we are in the “right” does that mean we should create an ordeal? Taking this guy to court ruined a potential relationship. It ruined the chances of sharing salvation with them, and, from the way you describe them, they probably don’t have any money and therefore is creating more trouble for their already troubled life. You were in the right to do all this, no doubt about it. But we have to ask ourselves, in the bigger picture, is it worth it?
Wow. Just wow. I simply don’t have the time for this sort of silliness.
If I added up all the time you spent on this, and multiplied billable hours, those few chickens cost you 10s of thousands of dollars.
Plus, you almost had to shoot someone. I try to avoid that situation all the time. Shooting someone isn’t just a legal matter but also a matter you have to talk with God about.
Chris shares some serious wisdom here!
I am stunned to see the many comments by folks that they would not stand up for themselves and use the judicial system the way that you did. It really sucks to know that so many people (especially on this site) will fail to enforce their rights and hold to a set of reasonable principals because they would be “inconvenienced”, “lose money and time” or would be so overwhelmed with fear of retaliation. Several commenters have also noted that giving in (charity or otherwise) can still lead to further issues because the opposing party now can assume they are dealing with a wussy. I have sued in small claims myself, against an attorney no less, and won my claim. He threatened and blustered, etc. and then refused to pay the judgment. That did not work out well for him. I researched his assets and delivered a list of potential lien items to the local constables for action. You should have seen their faces when they discovered that they would be getting a legal crack at a “know-it-all attorney”. He immediately wrote a check after they hooked up the wrecker vehicle to his “office trailer” located in front of the local jail. Haven’t heard from him since in any manner, shape or form because he knows I will stand up for my principles and use the law.
I get that to some, Chickens may just be chickens to some folks, but I know first hand that many people really rely on what they can grow in this part of the country.. A few Chickens to some can mean the difference between eating protein that week or not.. I know an old guy in Benewah county that lives on $265.00 a month. The rest of his income comes from whatever he can trade or sell. He raises chickens too.. If he loses his chickens, he also looses his egg business.. 4 bucks a dozen is chump change to most, But to this old boy, it makes the difference between him making it to the food bank in St. Maries once a month or not. But I suppose if you are not in his situation I would have addressed the dog directly, and avoided the neighbor altogether.
There are people who live in the redoubt area out of shear necessity.
That would literally be putting your eggs in one basket.
Ps. In 20/20 hindsight
“The bailiff told him to turn off his phone … He refused. It was his personal, private property phone and he had a picture of the dog on it.”
Not his wife or family member. His “dag”. Perhaps his favorite hunting dog or pit-bull he spends more time bonding with than his family. At least you know what mentality you’re dealing with. Now be the alpha male and carry a big “stick”, for your family. It’ll be good practice for when the SHTF, I mean you’re not in Kanas anymore. Sounds hokey but you did kick the dog.
(Wish I could say something helpful. Reread what some posters have written.
An old story: I was in Mississippi. Stopped in a remote country bar with local friends. They ordered and when the female bartender asked what I wanted I just ordered a soda, being designated driver plus I quit drinking back then. She started to freak out as no one ever asked for just a soda in the history of the place. In the background people stood up, lumberjack people. I’m thinking, “Great, I’m in a Lynyrd Skynyrd song”. Some guy tipped over my friend’s drink on the bar top. My friend raised up the guy’s palm into the air and from a standing position kicked the guy’s armpit with his pointed sh*t kicking boot. The guy went down. We walked backwards out the place to the car.
And then my friend turned around, went into the bar and picked up the guy off the floor and brought him a drink. They talked awhile.
To this day I don’t understand (where I used to live, once a person is on the floor he will be kicked till it gets old). If you can comprehend perhaps it might help? Just don’t appear weak as that will get the poop kicked out of you.
Each man must judge each situation on his own. Your solution would not have been my solution. I can replace chickens in 21 days, I can make a dog disappear in less time than that and when asked I would just remind the neighbor that he said his dog never left his property so why would he be asking me about him.
I’ve had dogs all my life and trust most of them more than most people I meet but in the end they’re still just dogs and chickens are still just chickens.
To all who advocate shooting and shoveling a word of caution.
Shoot to kill and do not miss. A dear friend, a neighbor in my neck of the woods took a shot at a big mutt that had been tearing up his garden for weeks.
His mistakes were he had tried to talk politely to the people before taking action and he shot the dog using bird shot. Literally the next day there was a photo of a tearful teenage boy hugging his bandaged mutt on the front page with a story that made my buddy look like a monster.
When I had a problem with a neighbors dogs I used animal control. They wrote tickets but I was told unless I was willing to stand up in court he would beat the charges. Most people do not follow up. I did and I cost that guy 750.00 in fines with two trips to court. His harrasement didn’t end there but I refused to allow him to bully me.
Sometimes you have to take a stand, face to face, man to man like the OP did.
It’s an old saying, but “Revenge is a dish best served up cold.”
Just beware, as many others have commented. It may not happen right away.
Many suggestions posted above to consider.
I think if dirt bags identify you as a law abiding good guy. They are more apt to try to bully you or rip you off since the law seems to benefit them NOT us. IE; burden of proof, ect. This problem is a plague all over the US. I am starting to understand the often encountered sign in rural areas “WE DON”T DIAL 911” . I used to think it was just macho crap about shooting burglars. But it means more than that now. Like we’ll respond in an unconventional warfare kinda way if you mess with us….
I’m amazed at how many people are suggesting the plantiff not do this, either out of fear of retribution or fear of something. I’ve had neighbors like this; the more you let them by with, the more they do. You know: Give them an inch…. Have we become a nation of wussified little boys who are afraid to stand up for their rights? TR had it right: Speak softly and carry a big stick (preferably 9mm and above). Petra says shoot the dog and bury it. In West Virginia, where I come from, the dog would have been shot and hung on the clothesline.
I’m also amazed that so many completely miss the point. Just because they are too scared to go to court doesn’t mean they themselves won’t be sued. They turn up noses at a resource of shared experiences at their own folly. Odd philosophy considering the blog they are reading and commenting on.
Just curious, but how deep would a microchip have to be buried for it to be unreadable by a scanner?
I had a man tell me that he could find a coyote den by scanning for microchips from devoured pets???
I would think very carefully before following the actions of this story teller. His story more than likely will not end how he thinks.. He has created so many potential problems for him/herself. He can not be in two places at once. If someone wants to get you they only need to get your family when you are away. It easy for a dead beat to pattern your life especially if they know where you live! They might have time and no job… Do you work? Do you ever leave your home. Is your house fire proof? Do you have other animals that can be taken from you? Do you have you entry and exit points protected from tire spikes? This guy can screw you ever way you have never given any consideration to…and in ways that you CANT defend against….
His actions have already identified the type of person he is and who’s company he keeps. Owning a gun makes people think they are special with special powers. It is always what you don’t see coming that gets you where it hurts.. Most gun owners will not pull the trigger when it is needed. Most gun owners have been born and bred to follow rules that goes with there moral compass. This gives most people a certain mindset and this is how people are herded to a common thinking which leads to a predictable response to a stimuli . Those that don’t follow rules don’t think like those that do. He has the rest of his life to even the score with you. He can wait you out. More than likely you will move from your safe haven to find a new one. Because you could find out that being in a safe haven requires being around people that are not like him and you are not actually safe there at all….
If your representation of him is accurate he does not sound like he has higher intelligence than you. So maybe you will be ok.. But more than likely you will get a broken windshield or maybe a shot cow … u know something that will even the score in his mind… count on it…
And a second note: I have read a lot of stuff on the net and I don’t believe I would ever handle business like this nor would I want to be around or near a person that conducts business this way. This was not gods way for he would have forgiven, the man is not the dog…and it sure was not an average half godly mans way.. Men do not conduct or handle problems like this… calling on the gov for assistance is a last resort… like in send a meat wagon i took some lead and my bones are broke and I cant patch myself up..
“If any man hurt a field or a vineyard, and put in his beast to feed upon that which is other men’s: he shall restore the best of whatsoever he hath in his own field, or in his vineyard, according to the estimation of the damage” (Ex. 22:5).
God gave us laws and our laws are based on his laws. Forgiveness does not mean what you imply.
I thought it was handled badly. now that guy has to respond in some way. It will likely escalate. Maybe I would have talked to the guy and seen if he would make it right. Most likely he would have told you to go somewhere. Then most people would have made his dog disappear. the courts? no way. Next, your car burns to the ground or your house. Go ahead and put a lien on something.
Shoot, shovel and shut up would be a lot of peoples way of dealing with it.
Sure do see both sides of this one…open stance after the (necessary) response slap to a given hit vs. stay hidden and don’t yank a “sleeper” / dogs ears (post 1st hit – by the chicken-eating dog or other similar “hits” by X,Y,Z babbaboob today).
Two correct thoughts on both sides of this BEHAVIORAL issue:
1) To not take a “Slap-Stance” vs a “hit” is to “become part of the problem” by teaching babbaboob that s/he can DO anything & most will just “allow/accept” the hits, without any proper defenses issued. Bad move in many cases – Thugs delight in this non-response, truly! World is now full of aggressive jerks that NEEDED their jaws jacked – and still do – just to get them to leave you alone! If done right – which can mean becoming ruthless, unfortunately, nowadays – this is the best response to any Bully, always. But, you have to be able to “back your moves up” or the wimp in you will be smelled & dispelled by these cretin! And some out there will only be stopped by “high velocity lead therapy,” dear friends…nothing to mess with if not willing to win at all costs when messing with Devils.
2) I was told eons ago, that no matter what happens: “You do know you can be DEAD RIGHT… don’t you?” THIS one is when the dude your dealing with is as BAD as you never want to ever be! Thus the song: “Don’t tug on Superman’s cape; don’t spit in the wind; you don’t mess around with the ole’ Lone Ranger…and you don’t (go) mess(ing) around with big Jim!!”
Difference is Sheep vs Sheepdog vs Wolves, I guess. (Ref. Ret. Lt. Col. David Grossman) Cuz a real Sheepdog does run towards gunfire & they often do choose to take these types of Slap-Stands…for a principled good reason…much like I read in AE’s thoughts in this article here. Probably a fellow Sheepdog, I’d imagine…
Won a somewhat similar victory over a rather unscrupulous person.
That was 9 years ago.
Still trying to collect.
Once they go underground, it’s tuff to collect
This article was very interesting as well as the comments.
My final conclusion is that two words changed everything: ‘young daughter’. There is no mention of a wife so I can only assume the daughter is totally dependent on her father.
At the point when the character, sobriety and potential danger of the three was assessed I think it would have been best to say your peace and walk away. Then take appropriate defensive measures in light of these potentially harmful men living nearby. Lastly alert other neighbors that you trust know about what took place.
I think you have failed to see that in true rural life you are the one who committed the infraction. You have involved the law. Everyone of your other neighbors may agree with you. But deep down, none of them will ever trust you again. Period.
Never knew we had so many ‘Quislings’ on here.
Well I am sure glad I took the time to read through the diverse comments here. The author did make an honorable attempt, and as the comments show, honorable people get treated with dishonor by dishonest people. As Jesus said, “Be wary as foxes”. That is a real challenge for folks who are getting behavior standards by reading stories on the net, and should be remedied.
And Jesus also said, “….in this world you will have trouble….”.
Dirtbags have already decided the rest of us are their victims. I’m glad you took this one to court and sorry the judge didn’t do something about making the culprit pay for contempt. That is a mistake of law enforcement/judiciary that trains the dud to be rewarded by bad behavior. It is toxic.
The central point I got from this series is Biosecurity. It is a real issue for all of us, and should be a primary focus on both plant and animal crop protections. I love the benefits of free-ranging fowl who reduce insect issues, flies, ticks, and provide meat and eggs. But both human and multitudes of non-human predators will always wipe you out. Racoons wiped out our entire crop of pullets one night. Friends and neighbors have been devastated by raccoons, mink, and weasels, dogs, coyotes, and eagles. And after meeting one rattlesnake in a chicken house myself, and and seeing photos of cottonmouths curled up in hen nests, we need to pay what it takes to protect.
If each of us have a food garden and animals, what is the total cost of your fencing, netting, and any other security you have paid for?
Now, have you each paid more for guns and ammo, or for actual physical security items? read a couple prepper books and watch a few movies. The first thing things that get stolen are fuel and farm animals.
We’re devoting thousands to our next green house and animal production facilities.
Best wishes, God Bless, and hope all you readersprotect your foodstream. Bad years are coming.
As Anonymous says above, I also agree. Some folks can’t see the forest for there are too many trees.
There is a third option that i have personally done. Live trap and release an hour away.
I had a neighbors dog being agressive around my kids. I trapped it and took it back and explained i dont want it in my yard and that it snapped at my kids. With a half hour it was back after he had said he would keep it in his yard. I trapped it again and relocated it. Problem solved. And if asked i know nothing. And its not burried in the back 40 with a microchip. However if agressive enough i would have shot and relocated in a second.
I have witnessed the very same myself. Effective and somewhat humane. Good call, Ohio1
Handled it exactly right IMHO. Now be careful! To have ignored him would have never set well with any man. He probably will never pay. Will file bankruptcy or just ignore the court order but being a person like he is you may need to be aware. Trail cams or security cams might be what you need, so that when he comes to do whatever- you will have documentation. Sometimes these people have gotten away with this stuff forever but have video or photo documentation and he may see a change in residence- incarceration
My former wife once confronted out one of our neighbors in the city over her not picking up her dog’s poo in front of our house. That turned into several years of having that neighbor filing complaints over our dogs barking, calling the city on us over petty nonsense and getting nails put under our car tires. Learned a lesson – avoid conflicts with neighbors over petty nonsense.