Jim:
I too live in an open carry state where it is also allowed in private vehicles and have chosen not to apply for a concealed carry permit. According to the most recent CDC data, West Virginia has the greatest proportion of homes with at least one gun East of the Mississippi and the fifth highest in the entire country. During a recent discussion with a local LEO, he didn’t even look twice at the 9mm on my hip. We even have two rifles on our flag and the mascot of our flagship university is authorized by state law to fire his muzzleloader on the football field.
Another concern is that in many states allow public access to lists of concealed carry permit holders. Property crimes went up 11% last year according to the DOJ and if the trend continues we may see thieves targeting homes from available lists of licensees like concealed carry and ham radio. – Allen C.
James:
I have the following comments on the letter: “Concealed Carry Permits – Pros and Cons:”
Most people that frequent James’ web site would agree that carrying a weapon, openly or concealed, is our natural right, and a plain language reading of the Second Amendment makes it clear that this right was intended to be unencumbered in the United States. I have no ethical or moral objection to those who chose to exercise their natural rights without consideration of the current legal climate. If you do that, however, please make sure you have to understand the risks of becoming part of the criminal justice system.
I have CCW permits in five states, which through reciprocity entitles me to carry in most jurisdictions. I originally obtained my CCW in my native California because open carry, while at the time legal, was not practical for me, and I did not want to violate the law in order to carry concealed. For professional and family reasons I am not able to move right now, and many people find themselves in this situation.
If you live in a Constitutional Carry state – lucky you! – and you do not travel regularly outside the state, then don’t bother. In this situation there are two things to consider:
(1) When you obtain a CCW they make you take training, and that is a good thing. For most of my life I had ignored pistols – I spent my time and money trying to be a better rifleman – but being forced to take the very limited CCW training got me started, and I am now a combat pistol training junkie – and I think that the training does make me more qualified to be an armed citizen on a day-to-day basis. So if you begin to carry please dedicate yourself to becoming better trained.
(2) Secondly, don’t think that you are actually escaping the notice of local, state or federal governments by not having applied for a CCW permit or recently purchased a firearm. In fact, a police officer friend of mine comment that we are fast approaching the time when you will attract more attention by not being “part of the system,” and that it might be easier to escape negative attention by going ahead and becoming one of the rabble that has some sort of record, albeit a “peaceful” one.
(3) And lastly, even if you don’t travel regularly, you might want to do so but without sufficient notice to get your local CCW, so why not get it and have it in case you need to jump in the car and head out?
Good luck! – Bill C.
Dear James,
When a police officer pulls over a car in the Redoubt, he/she calls in the license plate and in reply, dispatch tells the officer that the occupant has a carry permit. This allows the officer to know that the owner is carrying but is a vetted non-felon. Now whether the car has it’s owner driving is another question. Most officers I talk to, (I’m an ex-cop) assume that the occupant of any car is carrying. There is a survival benefit to that thought as a cop. Remember that having a CCW means you have to tell the officer up front anyway in most states. It’s a good idea even if it’s not required by law to inform the officer.
You, having a CCW allows a gun dealer, not to have to run a background check on you if the national “instant” check system is down. If the phone system isn’t working and the internet is down, even if you throw silver coins at your dealer, they can’t let you take home guns without a CCW. In Wyoming (not necessarily all states), The dealer can sell you a gun as long as you present me a CCW (even an out of state one) without having to do a background check. So if the system isn’t working, you can still get a last second purchase before the infra-structure stops working completely . If the whole system goes hard down and resets, I doubt that many dealers will worry much about the existing rules and continue business as usual albeit with somewhat higher prices. If we can’t renew their stock, things will get expensive fast so get your defensive preparations settled sooner than later.
Acquiring a CCW requires one to have a training certificate in most states. That is a good thing because most people need a training course (or 5 or 6) under their belt before strapping on a Glock. I would say that 2 out of 10 people that buy guns, have a clue how to use them. The other 8 should get trained fast. What you do under stress mimics your lowest level of training. Get your training up to snuff please soon.
Getting a Wyoming Resident CCW and a out of state Florida CCW will give you 40 states to carry in. Only Illinois is the hold out at this point. The reciprocity map to look at is at: http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
BTW, congratulations, Wisconsin is now a “Shall Issue” state and they even have reciprocity with some other states. Ye,s Freedom is marching on. – F.B. (15 miles from asphalt)
Dear JWR,
After reading the letter about the pros and cons of a CCW permit, I thought I would weigh in with my comments. To start out, I agree that carrying a concealed weapon is a right that some sort of government entity does not have the right to give permission to do. That being said, however, in Nevada here, and especially Clark County where Las Vegas is, the consequences of getting caught carrying a concealed pistol without a permit can be quite severe. I am sure you could fight a conviction in court, but that could be costly and take much money and time for an unknown and possibly bad outcome. I have held CCW permits in four separate states including Montana, Utah, Arizona, and now Nevada. Quite frankly they were all very painless to obtain. The hardest portion was shelling out the money (Almost $100 here in Nevada for the government fees alone!). I know some people are afraid of the government having your name and the fact you carry a weapon, or at least the ability to do so (Most people I know and the ones I have met in classes, don’t carry a gun on a regular basis or at all. That in itself is a topic worth discussing: the mental mindset to go from sheep to sheepdog and consciously choose to be able to protect yourself and others!). Some will tout open carry as a way to go about without a CCW permit. I do believe open carry has its place. On a hike in the woods, yes, to open carry. Work around the ranch, yes to open carry. Wal-Mart on a busy afternoon, probably not. I do want people to become more comfortable with guns in our culture and to respect them. Not fear and shun them. I do believe open carry in urban centers can bring unwanted attention and negative attention, whether it be from a anti-gunner or prospective criminal. Concealed keeps them unaware and you in total control. The pros of the permit do outweigh the cons in my opinion. My having the resources available to defend myself is paramount. If I have to get a permit to do it, I will. In the meantime I will fight for Constitutional Carry laws ()where citizens don’t need a permit to carry a gun, concealed or not. As you said, Freedom is on the march! God willing we will have our rights restored as they should be. – Steve in Nevada
Hi Jim,
I find it amazing that after decades of people fighting to prevent the government from having a list of gun owners and their guns that people now line up and pay the government to get on that list. The government is changing how people think. With a CCW card people are thinking of it like a drivers license, which is a privilege not a right. We are already seeing how things like the TSA are changing what Americans are now putting up with and accepting as the new “norm”.
Some people think that when they buy a gun from an FFL dealer that they are on the “list”. They are not. Your on the form in the files of the firearms dealer. This is why in the original “Red Dawn” movie the Cuban commandeer tells his men to go to the sporting goods store for the firearms 4473 forms to find out who has guns.
Once the government has a list and then decides to outlaw gun ownership (UN small arms ban possibly) they will have a pretty good start to confiscate these weapons. You also have to deal with LEOs who don’t think you average citizen should have a gun. Now that our law enforcement agencies have become more militarized this is more frequent than you think. When a LEO runs your plate or automatically scans it as he drives by you, it tells him all kinds of information, including if you have a CCW. So if you are trying to stay under the radar the fewer lists you are on the better. Keep your powder dry, – Karl G.
Good Day James,
I wanted to touch on the pros and cons of CCW permits in North Carolina.
The county I reside in requires certificates issued by the Sheriff’s office. It’s a cumbersome process that requires one to go downtown, apply and pay a fee ($5 per certificate up to 3 maximum). After a background check that takes a few days (5-10 if memory serves) the certificates are available for pickup at the same downtown location. Once these are in hand, firearm purchases are cash and carry. Re-apply as needed.
This method allows one to carry openly, which means non-concealed (including car glove boxes, consoles, under seat etc).
However a CCW permit, while more costly eliminates all of the above, with one exception. A class is required ($80-$120), and certification is granted. That document is then taken to the same downtown office where a major background check is performed, for a $90 fee. Once passed, the permit is ready for pick up and finger prints will be taken.
Once this permit is in hand, firearm purchases are cash and carry. The firearm maybe concealed (law permitting) including those car compartments mentioned above. the permit is valid for 5 years and can be renewed without going through those steps again.
I saw the benefit, mostly, in the ease of purchasing firearms, including private sales (not legally required, but may sellers will not sell without one). Being able to keep the firearm car compartments was also a big “selling” point for me.
No doubt agree it is not as ideal as the American Redoubt (and other areas). However, at least in the Tar Heel State, I believe having one certainly out weighs the consequences of going without it. – Drew D.
Dear Mr. Rawles,
I am a long time reader, first time commenter. I live in Colorado which is a shall issue state, which means that the local sheriff must issue a CCW as long as the applicant passes a CBI background check, (like we were common criminals). Along with running a family business, I am also the chairman of the board of directors of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (RMGO), Colorado’s only no compromise gun rights group. I personally believe the requirement to have a CCW is not only unconstitutional, but infringes against my right for self protection endowed by my Creator. That being said, I have a CCW because of my vocal opposition to ANY restrictions on our gun rights and the fact that I prominently open carry about 50% of the time. As far as others (family and friends) getting a CCW, I take a different position. I personally believe that concealed means concealed. Which means that no one knows if you are carrying. The state keeps a record of CCW holders, which means that LEO and other agencies have knowledge of who has been issued a “privilege” to carry. I have known of several woman who have been the subject of harassment and even solicitation by male LEO’s. (most of those have resulted in the firing and prosecution of said LEO) The last thing I would want is for that “type” of LEO to know if my daughter/wife/sister/friend, was carrying a firearm.
This is just my 2 cents. – Bluebleeder5.56
James:
First off, Thanks for your years of guidance and information. God bless you and your family.
I think there are numerous correct responses to Greg S about having a Concealed Carry Permit. I am in Tennessee and have had my permit for three years. I do not have to register my guns with the state. I can use the permit to buy a gun from a dealer, immediately with no three day cool down period. Also, I can buy from a private individual and show it to him to to ensure that I am not a felon. Making a private sale of a weapon can open people up to liability if it’s to the wrong person.
I have the majority of my weapons from private sales, but I keep a few “on the books” in case of a “U.S. gone wrong” gun banning and collection from big brother. Then I can turn my registered ones in and say, “See, I am a good, obedient citizen”, and stay under their radar. – John S
James,
Thanks for soliciting input on this topic.
I have been living in Minnesota for many years now. As a recent CHL holder (less than two years), I can only add that the benefits of being able to legally carry in my home state and elsewhere far outweighs waiting for TSHTF before anyone starts carrying full time for the first time. Just like moving to your retreat pre-shtf, and learning self sufficiency skills before, carrying a sidearm will desensitize you and your family to you being armed. Case in point, my wife is opposed to owning, carrying, shooting guns herself. While she tolerates my indulgence, she has become used to me always being armed. This fact will lessen my family members from the trauma of firearms when TSHTF and it’s game on.
I don’t like having to beg for a permit with a recognized right, but it beats living in California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, etc.
Thank you James, and all the other contributors for my education and growth. Worth every minute I spend learning!
Sincerely, – F.W. in Minnesota