Letter Re: Sprouting Techniques

Dear James
I saw the posts about sprouting and would like to suggest Sprout People:

The have loads of information on sprouting and have good prices for many types of sprouting seed and sprouters. I have the Sproutmaster, the Bioset and the Hemp Bag. I find the Bioset to
be the easiest (water twice a day) and larger than the Sproutmaster, which also works quite well. I also find that if you want to have sprouts every day, you really need to have two sprouters.
Sprouts are nutritious, tasty and easy to grow. They are the perfect survival food. All the best, – Kurt P.

Odds ‘n Sods:

Gold edges up towards record highs on Pakistan unrest, low dollar  

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SJC sent this piece from Jim Jubak: Don’t count on a ‘normal’ recession

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The humorous and informative Dr. Housing Bubble blog outgrew its Blogspot hosting site, so the editors got serious and bought their own domain and hosting: www.DoctorHousingBubble.com. Be sure to update your bookmarks.

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Speaking of Dr. Housing Bubble, don’t miss their recent article on California house prices: 10 Homes throughout the Golden Bubble State.

Jim’s Quote of the Day:

"Now stir the fire,
and close the shutters fast,
Let fall the curtain,
wheel the sofa round,
And while the bubbling and loud hissing urn
Throws up a steamy column;
and the cups
That cheer but not inebriate,
wait on each,
So let us welcome peaceful
evening in." -William Cowper, "The Task" (1785)

Note from JWR:

The high bid in the current SurvivalBlog Benefit Auction is now at $320. The auction is for a scarce original 1980s-vintage Heckler und Koch 19mm Emergency Flare Launcher (EFL) aka “Notsignalgerät“ from my personal collection. It comes with three magazines and 28 scarce original German 19mm flares–10 red, 10 white, and 8 green. Together, this package is worth approximately $400. It is not classified as a “firearm” under Federal law. (Consult your state and local laws before bidding.) Sorry, no overseas bids will be accepted for this auction. This auction ends on January 15th. Please e-mail us your bids, in $10 increments.

Four Letters Re: Sprouting Techniques

Mr. Rawles,
I saw the post about Nick B. looking for help on the subject of sprouts. Maybe I can help. Earlier this year I was checking things out on a couple of preparedness sites. Some of the readers may know about these,but I’ll pass the links along for those who may not have seen them. This one Survival And Self-Sufficiency Links has a lot of useful resources, and I found this one for sprouts: Sprouting: a brief overview. It has a few links above the section on beekeeping. There may be others that I have forgotten, or just may not have seen yet myself, but I hope they can be of some help to him and other folks that visit here. May the Lord bless you all and your preps. – Dim Tim

 

Sir,
For sprouting I use a section of the new plastic bug screen material for screen doors. I fold the section up into a flat pouch and pour a measure of seed in then pin the opening closed. To make the pouch I staple around the three closed edges. Then, once closed up I dampen the seeds, roll the screen pouch into a loose cylinder and place it into a coffee can covered with the old plastic cover. I keep a little bit of water, plus what drips off in the bottom of the can to keep the internal atmosphere damp. I just make sure to dampen the seeds as necessary, usually checking once in the morning and evening unless the weather is really dry. – TCD

Hello Mr. Rawles,
I saw that you are looking for suggestions on filters for sprouting seed. The following method works for me with wheat:
Sprout your seeds in a Mason jar with a thin clean cotton rag fixed over the mouth by an elastic band. To drain, simply pour the water out slowly. Make sure you do not let the entire surface of the cloth become wet, or it will act as a seal. As long as some of the rag covering the mouth is dry, water should flow out without any problems. To refill with water, lift the jar so the cloth touches the tap while filling. All the best, – Roo

 

Hi,
I am a daily reader of SurvivalBlog and wanted to send a tip to the man who is asking about how to drain the sprouts. I picked up three stainless steel screens, already pre-cut to fit the top of a wide mouth quart Mason jar from a local health food store/food co-op.
I soak the seeds for about 6-8 hours in water (from my Aqua Rain water filter that I purchased from Best Prices Storable Foods–they are great people to talk with!) then I drain and rinse the seeds thoroughly and turn the jar upside down at an angle in a tupperware type of dish to allow the excess water to drain. I have been pouring the discarded sprout water on my houseplants recently, the water doesn’t get wasted and the nutrients can’t hurt them I bet.
I prefer to use a mix of seeds, I use a bit of Alfalfa, clover, Radish, and mung, it makes a great mix to add to sandwiches and the radish seed spices it up mildly too.
I suggest purchasing or making at least two screens so once the first batch is done, which takes about 3 days, then I have the next batch coming along to replace it..
I am by no means a professional but have enjoyed sprouts all my adult life and just recently figured I should get back to making them as once the SHTF we will need to add fresh greens to our diets.
I encourage people to try different varieties of seeds and to mix it up for different flavor combinations and the nutrients that each different plant seed can provide.
Sprout seeds do need to “breathe” so don’t store them in airtight containers.
Sprouts make people crinkle their noses lots of times, sounds like rabbit food and I strongly encourage them to try them more than once, I find them a wonderful addition to sandwiches and Quesadillas, and oftentimes I eat them straight out of the jar.

I have also read great reviews on a sprouter called the Sproutmaster, but have no personal experience with it, the quart Mason jars with the stainless steel screens work perfect for me.
Hope this helps!
Also, I haven’t seen it mentioned or missed it, but I have been ordering all my wheat, corn, oats, flour, etc from the Natural food co-op, the savings are huge…we are very rural, live in the deep woods of the deep south and so have to drive three hours to get there, we order ahead of time and about 3 days later our order is ready.
Look for a food co-op or whole foods store and ask for their special orders dept, we get a 20% discount for ordering over 50 pounds!
I have to pack them myself, but have been able to purchase much more this way, I have paid about $14-$17 for 50 pounds of wheat berries, we have stored up about 600 pounds so far of Hard Red Winter wheat, Hard White winter wheat, Soft white winter wheat (for cakes and biscuits, tortillas) and Durum (semolina) for pastas, steel cut oats, pinto beans, rice and bulk spices..we make a bulk order once a month. with the price of fuel, we try to order as much as we can afford to make the trip count.
I have collected all my white food grade plastic buckets for free from our local Wal-Mart’s bakery (an hour drive) and I add diatomaceous earth [DE] to all to keep the pests at bay…if using the DE make sure it is food grade, it also works to worm farm critters, the bonus being it worms the animals and also cuts way down on the fly population on the back end. We put it on our outdoor cat and no more fleas, he is one happy kitty.

I wear a dust mask to not breath in the dust, as I am mixing it with the grains. If you have eaten or used a pre-prepared biscuit mix, then you have eaten DE.
thanks for all your hard work on this site! – KW

Letter Re: A Useful Rifle Zeroing Technique, and Effective Spotter Sighting Offsets

Dear Jim,
You brought up an excellent point when you mentioned zeroing weapons.
Everyone should know how to battle sight zero their primary defensive weapon (assuming adjustable sights). The procedure is as follows:
Move the sights all the way left (rear) and down (front). Count the number of clicks or turns necessary to reach the opposite extreme. Move the sights back to the halfway position and remember this number (it can be written on a laminated card in the butt/grip or even on the side of the stock). This is mechanical zero. It should be fairly close to actual zero and is the emergency default for any weapon you can’t sight in by fire or bore sighting.
Go to the range and shoot a tight, supported prone group at this setting. Adjust the sights as needed to get a good center mass group. Record how many clicks from mechanical zero this is, and memorize it.
Upon being issued or acquiring any similar weapon (AR, FAL, M1A, etc), immediately set to this setting. Even if you can’t range zero, you should be close enough to be effective.
It’s also a good idea to learn how to spot impacts, and how to have someone spot for you. This applies both to weapons that may be slightly sight-offset, and to long range shooting through wind or to ranged where trajectory shift occurs.

For sight offset, have the spotter place a small target (a tape disc or such. A thumbtack for really good shooters) on the larger silhouette. They should be able to “dial in” a shooter in a very few number of shots, by calling the distance.
For example, for a target 6″ above and 4″ left of center mass, the spotter would call, “Up six, left four.” Let’s say the shooter fires and hits an inch low and left of this position. The spotter would call that, “offset up one, right one,” and the shooter should estimate the new position, based on the fact that the weapon was off-target by that amount.
Practicing like this develops trust and rapport between shooter and spotter, trust in the weapon to perform consistently (And if it doesn’t, fix or replace it), and trust in one’s shooting abilities.
For spotting and shooting distant threats, the shooter concentrates on putting fire on target. The spotter is responsible for target identification and team security. It is important to maintain this division as much as possible to ensure effectiveness. Typically, the more experienced member of the team will spot. Everyone should be able to shoot reliably.
A shot like this proceeds with the spotter identifying the location and range with easy to find landmarks, then the target. “Straight ahead 320 meters. Lone pine tree.”
Upon sighting this location, the shooter should confirm. “Tree, Check.”
The spotter will continue with offset instructions. “Five meters left. Mutant zombie biker in prone position with rifle.”
The shooter confirms, “Target” or “position,” depending on whether they have seen the target itself, or have only identified the location in which the target is, and will be shooting to direction only. It is desirable but not necessary that the shooter see the target, as long as the spotter can, and the shooter can follow directions.
The spotter will give direction to wait, shoot, or otherwise.
Let’s assume on taking the shot, the impact is a meter short. The target moves and the spotter follows.
” Same target, new location, five meters right of tree.”
The shooter again confirms, “Target” or “position.”
The spotter corrects for the previous shot, assuming that the shooter aimed correctly. “Offset fire up one meter.”
It is important the spotter trust that the shooter is in fact aiming properly, and any miss is due to a combination of environmental factors. It is important that the shooter be aware of any errors they may have made, allow for those, and trust the spotter to give accurate data for offset. Guessing at it will yield poor results. Both must assume the other is effective.
Feedback is also important. If the shooter, for example, is consistently a meter short, the spotter can order, “Offset all shots up one meter.” Likewise, if the (local) shooter knows the tree is only 290 meters, he should relay that information so the (visiting) spotter can adjust his observations accordingly, to aid in locating less obvious landmarks (such as the “gray boulder, 275 meters” and the “depression in the field, 180 meters”).
I’ve been able to hit the previously mentioned thumbtack after dropping and misaligning a scope 6″ at 100 yards. I followed my spotter’s instructions to hit said thumbtack, which I could not see. At the time, my point of aim was over the silhouette’s left shoulder into empty space. It took one shot to determine point of aim, one to get within an inch, and the last to obliterate a .3″ target. This was due less to my shooting ability, than to my ability to trust and follow my spotter with his much more powerful scope and better visual position. It didn’t matter where the reticle was. It mattered where I hit.
This combination of skills saves ammunition and maximizes fire effectiveness in minimum time. – Michael Z. Williamson

Odds ‘n Sods:

Reader Ben. L. tells us that the US Transportation Security Agency (TSA, a.k.a.”Thousands Standing Around”) has banned most lithium batteries from passenger plane checked luggage. This includes certain laptop and pro camera batteries, and those ubiquitous “123” batteries used in Surefire flashlights. The new rule reads in part:
“Effective January 1, 2008, spare lithium batteries – extra batteries not installed on devices – will no longer be allowed in checked baggage. Spare lithium batteries may be packed in carry-on baggage and lithium batteries installed in a device may be packed in either checked or carry-on, as long as the battery is installed in the device.”

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From The Financial Times: Euro gains on dollar in official reserves

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Thomas Tan’s predictions for 2008

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I spotted this over at Mish Shedlock’s blog: More Writedowns Force Citigroup To Sell Assets

Jim’s Quote of the Day:

“Let your heart feel for the afflictions and distresses of every one, and let your hand give in proportion to your purse; remembering always the estimation of the widow’s mite, but, that it is not every one who asketh that deserveth charity; all, however, are worthy of the inquiry, or the deserving may suffer.” – President George Washington, letter to Bushrod Washington, Jan. 15, 1783

Note from JWR:

Today we present another article for Round 14 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest. The writer of the best non-fiction article will win a valuable four day “gray” transferable Front Sight course certificate. (Worth up to $2,000!) Second prize is a copy of my “Rawles Gets You Ready” preparedness course, generously donated by Jake Stafford of Arbogast Publishing. Round 14 ends on January 31st. Remember that articles that relate practical “how to” skills for survival will have an advantage in the judging.

Time and Energy Efficient Cooking, by KBF

I wish to share some valuable information on my personal experiences with the use of two cooking devices which I incorporate into daily homemaking practice when I am attempting to conserve on water and on fuel usage. Both of them are extremely time and energy efficient.

The two kitchen products which have earned their weight in silver in my home are my pressure cookers, and my newest kitchen toys, which come from an old Asian origin and cooking concept, the thermo cooker pot.

I have and use several sizes of pressure cookers. I chose the pot size for use for the job I’m performing based on the fill capacity of the product I am cooking in it. The pot capacity should never be over 2/3rds full. The food is liquid pressure cooked on the basis of requiring very little water or liquid and a minimal amount is lost and released as pressurized steam, thus it cooks evenly, thoroughly, and quickly. Time savings average about one half compared to the usual on the stove top methods. Fuel savings are dependant on the time required for the recipe. I use this method for large vegetable batches, and large cuts of meat, like roast cuts or several chickens and get a finished product that is tender to cut with a fork. My very large pressure pots are mostly used for canning purposes to put up jars of volume batches of seasonal produce, meats, and jellies. Using the pressure cookers overall cuts my actual cooking and canning time by one third, compared to using the open pot boil methods. When you are putting up hundreds of jars, this time efficiency becomes necessity. I have had a few mishaps however over the years. They were character building learning experiences of what not to cook in a pressure cooker. Beans, rice, and whole grain cereals need to be constantly monitored, as the small needle outlet from which the pressurized steam escapes becomes easily clogged, and when it does you have now created a bean bomb! If you’re like me and are multitasking in or out of the household, constant sitting to a pot is not time efficient or possible. I have discovered my next favorite device as a result of this need to cook my one pot meal favorite dishes and also to simultaneously free myself to leave to do other equally important jobs. This device allows me to leave the house and come home hours later to a safe, hot cooked meal.

The thermo cooker pot is actually two pots, one (the cooking pot) is inserted into a second thermo insulated pot and is sealed with a hermetic seal lid. The pots can be found in Asian market stores, online, and from high end kitchen and industrial supply houses and are sold by numerous makers. Some makers sell their pots to other distributors who stick their retail labels on them. More expensive in this case is not necessarily a better pot. Key points of its success for your needs are to consider the following issues when searching to procure one. The pot set needs to be constructed of excellent quality stainless steel in order to maintain heat conductivity and easily clean and withstand staining. The floor of the pot must be constructed of no less than two air-insulated layers. The inner pot’s volume size needs to be one that will compromise and accommodate the majority of food dishes you normally prepare, if you desire to own just one size. Think in volumes of servings somewhere between how much soup, stew, arroz con pollo [rice and chicken], or how much hot grain cereal you make in one batch. Waste is non productive and expensive ultimately in time and money. Thermo cooker pots work on the principals of applying fast radiant energy cooking to your prepared dish by using the inner cooking pot on the stovetop. The recipe chosen must be able to be brought up to and kept to a boiling temperature for at least 5 minutes, the longer you can boil it the better. Secondly, this inner pot is covered and then immediately placed inside the slightly larger external thermo chamber pot, it is tightly sealed, and taken off the radiant source to finish the cooking process over the next hour on its own kinetic heat requiring no external fuel source. I leave mine in the warmest location in the house. The food contained inside the thermo chamber continues to cook by conductant heat for the next hour or so at a heat temperature gradient loss of kinetic energy which gradually decreases over 6 hours of time and maintains itself at a warming temperature up to 8 hours. The food will then remain warm to +/- 160 degrees up to 8 hours, this being dependant on normal external ambient room temperatures. I have tested my unit with a thermometer after 8 hours, and it made the grade in 65 degree ambient room temperature. This can be a boon to use in fuel and time conservation modes during TEOTWAWKI. It can also be used inversely chill perishable foods safely for consumption for 6 to 8 hours. Think summer mayonaise and egg based salads or cool fruit salads or transporting fresh farm pot cheeses without ice.

I have now mastered my pots usage to include making yogurt, soft goat cheeses and tofu successfully by not boiling the milk or soybean curd but by bringing it slowly up to incubation temp for the culture I am using, and then using the thermo pot to finish the process of maintaining the heat source. In the past I used an old wide mouth thermos bottle to do this method but it did not hold enough volume for my family’s consumption or barter needs. We also now wake up to fresh hot maple wheat berry cereal in the morning by preparing this before retiring for the night. I have used the thermo pot now on different stove and fuel sources, including wood burning and get pretty consistent result. I have used it even away from home to travel and on hunting trips using the butane camp stove. I have boiled the recipes required water, and dumped in our packaged dehydrated camp food, to either wake up to warm eggs and sausage or to come back from the hunt to eat a great hot meal.

I hope this info will help all the cookies create more efficiency in their survival preparations and also to help them find more enjoyment time to read JWR’s great postings and books!
Have a blessed and bountiful New Year!

Letter Re: Peter Schiff’s Commentary–“Not Your Father’s Deflation”

Greetings!
Here’s some more ‘great’ news [from Peter Schiff, by way of Kitco.com] for the coming economic crash.

Thanks to ‘fiat currency,’ this [nascent] economic disaster won’t be nearly as “mild” as the Great Depression, because consumer prices will rise, and, our worthless money will de value at the same time! At least in the 30’s, the gold standard that backed the US dollar, made it hold value – even if there were fewer in circulation. Ditto silver & gold coins, that were still worth something (I found your blog late, and got started late, but I’m buying junk silver coins and the occasional gold one as fast as I can!!!) Don’t guess we’ll have to worry as much about toilet paper as we thought, after the economic SHTF – ‘Helicopter Ben’ [Bernanke] will print us wallets full of toilet paper! – Bob McC in Pittsburg

Odds ‘n Sods:

Stephen in Iraq flagged this: Home Sales Plunge, Feed Recession Fears

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Reader Nick B. says that he has started experimenting with sprouting, starting with alfalfa. He is looking for tips on how to drain them when they are still in seed stage. He has been trying coffee filters, but the filters seem to clog quickly. I’ve always used paper towels, but perhaps there is a SurvivalBlog reader with a better idea. Any tips?

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Thanks to SJC for this: Gold rises after Bhutto death, platinum hits record

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And RBS sent this: Worms infect more poor Americans than thought

Note from JWR:

The high bid in the current SurvivalBlog Benefit Auction is now at $300. The auction is for a scarce original 1980s-vintage Heckler und Koch 19mm Emergency Flare Launcher (EFL) aka “Notsignalgerät“ from my personal collection. It comes with three magazines and 28 scarce original German 19mm flares–10 red, 10 white, and 8 green. Together, this package is worth approximately $400. It is not classified as a “firearm” under Federal law. (Consult your state and local laws before bidding.) Sorry, no overseas bids will be accepted for this auction. This auction ends on January 15th. Please e-mail us your bids, in $10 increments.

Letter Re: Going into Debt to Acquire Firearms Before New Ban Legislation is Enacted?

Mr. Rawles,
Thanks for your recent advice. My question to you now combines questions of politics, debt, and firearms. The last time the executive and legislative branches were [both] held by the Democrats, we all got to enjoy the Assault Weapons Ban for 10 years. How removing a bayonet lug from firearms reduced gun violence, I’m not sure. The big problem with this, however, was obviously the magazine capacity limitations. The election of 2008 makes a similar act quite possible. By October 2008, a front-runner will probably have emerged. If that front-runner is not gun-friendly, where do we go from here? I will not have cash on hand to purchase firearms, but I do have consumer credit lines – kept completely free of debt – of around $8,000. I will probably be able to quickly convert this credit card debt (APR around 14%) to student loans (APR around 7%). Instinct tells me that credit cards should only be used in time of emergency, and going into additional debt when I don’t need to do so is foolish. However, it may also make sense to jump through a closing window of opportunity and make sure I get what I need to have before I can no longer have it.

Once the decision to go into debt is made, the question is then one of priorities. Weapons most likely to be affected by legislation are “assault rifles” and handguns. The goal would be to acquire at least one handgun, one carbine, and one MBR, each with a large stash of magazines – at least a dozen, probably more like 20. The handgun(s) would likely be a high capacity 9mm or .40 S&W, (Glock, SIG, H&K – we’ll see) to be supplemented later with 1911s, which are less likely to be affected by the ban. The carbine would likely be from the AR-15/M4 family, based on the popularity of these weapons and therefore the ease with which spare parts can be acquired. The MBR would likely be a PTR-91. I do not yet have personal experience with this weapon – and would certainly learn more before purchase – but I base this decision on the extremely low price of high-capacity magazines and parts right now and the generally positive reviews I have read. A rough estimate on all of this comes to, in my mind, around $3,000 to $4,000, not including training or substantial stores of ammunition – no small investment. I do not feel confident enough in my own abilities to select a quality used weapon, and would buy new – I see little point in risking my security on skills I do not feel confident in. Other weapons likely to be added later include a lightweight bolt-action rifle chambered in .308, a shotgun, and, of course, a .22 pistol and .22 plinking rifle – these are the least likely to be affected by any “ban”, and are therefore at the lowest priority level.

Should I rush out and purchase before the ban – even if it means going into debt? Should I wait to avoid debt and accept whatever I can get afterwards? Should I just purchase magazines and hope that there is no legislation requiring weapons be modified to prevent the use of hi-cap mags? Your advice is always appreciated. My best,- S.

JWR Replies: In my opinion, just the chance of new legislation is not enough to justify going into debt–even if you can shuffle any new debt into low-interest student loans. One option might be borrowing the requisite cash from someone beneficent in your family (does either you or your wife have a sympathetic “gun nut” uncle?) Otherwise, I would wait until passage of a new gun law seems truly imminent, then go get cash (perhaps by cashing one of those dreaded credit card “convenience checks”.) To avoid a paper trail, you should then buy all of the guns privately at a gun show in your own state. (From private parties that have tables, rather than from Federally licensed licensed dealers.) Other options include GunBroker.com (on-line auctions) or GunsAmerica.com (fixed price sales–usually more expensive). You need to concentrate exclusively on private party sellers from your own state–that way you won’t run afoul of the Federal law that prohibits the transfer of a modern (post-1898) gun across state lines, except through a FFL dealer.

It wouldn’t hurt to work up a detailed shopping list in advance. If your priority list is “legislatively driven”, then of course snatch up just the guns themselves, spare magazines, and a bit of ammo . You can get the other accessories and larger quantities of ammo at a later date.(After a new gun and/or full capacity magazine ban is enacted.)

Firearms selection is, and rightfully should be, highly personalized, based on your budget, your likely shooting distances at your intended retreat, regional caliber favorites, and your personal preferences. Both from the standpoint of adequate self -defense and in anticipation of legislated restrictions, a .308 MBR should be your top priority. I consider the FAL, L1A1, M1A, AR-10, and the HK-91 clones (such as the excellent Vector V-51 or the passable JLD PTR-91) all functionally equivalent, and for the sake of argument, roughly comparable. (Yes, I know that glass-bedded match grade M1As can be insanely accurate. But they can also be insanely expensive–and so can their spare parts and extra magazines. I recommend that you pick from that short list and buy what ever “fits” you best–both your ergonomics and your budget. But regardless of what you choose, consider the full life-cycle cost of the weapons system, including scope mounts, spare parts and magazines. In today’s market, this tilts the scales toward the HK-91 clones. (Since like-new alloy HK G3 magazines are available for as little as $3 each!)

Someone on an extremely spartan budget might consider a Century Arms International (CAI) or Federal Arms CETME clone, which are also blessed with cheap, plentiful magazines. (I have heard that HK G3 Alloy magazines will work, in a pinch.) However, if you buy a CETME, I strongly suggest that you put it through a 60+ round functional firing test, and examine it closely it for excessive magazine well tightness, using unaltered magazines. (Since some of the CETME clones that have been built since 9/2004 exhibit receiver dimensional tolerance problems and/or feeding problems.) Also, as with any other “parts kit”-assembled gun, closely examine the bore.

As for handguns, the Glock .40 S&W models are a fine choice. As I have posted previously, I would probably switch to Glocks if it weren’t for the fact that I have 30 years of muscle memory invested in shooting the Colt Model 1911 platform. (Never try to teach an old dinosaur new tricks.) However, do yourself a favor and try borrowing or renting both a Glock .40 (such as a Model 22 or 23) and a Glock .45 ACP (such as a Glock 21-SF or the newly-announced 30-SF). Shoot them “side by side”, under the instruction of an experienced Glockophile. If you can handle the recoil of the .45 then that should be your caliber choice., rather than the .40 caliber. If any of those Glock models feel just a bit too big/fat, there is an neat option for you: Both Robar and Arizona Response Systems do very nice machined grip reductions on Glocks. In his excellent book Boston’s Gun Bible, our compadre and Glockophile extraordinaire Boston T. Party highly recommends frame reductions and mentions that a large frame (G20/G21) Glock with a grip reduction feels a lot like holding a Browning Hi-Power. I have done business with both Robar and Arizona Response Systems for more than a decade. Both firms are very competent and reputable. But as I recall, Robar tends to have higher gunsmithing rates and a deeper backlog of orders. So you should probably go with T. Mark Graham at Arizona Response Systems. OBTW, if your budget allows it, have tritium sights installed at the same time as the grip reduction job.