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58 Comments

  1. I have a young Army Reserve Green Beret Weapons Sergeant (SFC) that works for me at his other job. While discussing sidearms I learned from him that they carried Glock 19 as the US Army still was issuing them the Beretta. The Beretta being full-size they were allowed to obtain and carry Glock 19 as a medium sized sidearm. Not as a POW but thru unit purchase. Although, I’d guess a few POW might have found their way to Afghanistan some how. As a side note two copies of your new book remained at my local Costco last I was there. Thank you for this article and the information you provide in the blog.

  2. Marvelous commentary on this topic. You covered the main reason I chose not to make the Army a career….open hostility to private arms possession and retention by officers. It is my understanding that the Air Force is beginning to see the light on allowing CCW by “qualified” personnel on bases.
    I recently installed two NBC shelters at a western air force base and was told by members on base that the commander allowed licensed carry there. I was about done with the project by then, so it didn’t matter. But the Army is still in love with dead, unarmed, personnel as long as they die within policy. Army training is still 40 years behind the curve.
    A late friend of mine has a son who worked EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal). He recounts many, many calls to deceased veterans homes to recover live artillery shells, cases of WWII grenades, mortar rounds, and the like. One case involved two 75mm rounds that “oozed fluid from the shells every time they built a fire in the fireplace because the shells were fashioned into fireplace ornaments.”
    One the air force base bombing range, where we installed the shelters, we had strict protocols to obey, and were in constant communication with the range safety officer. There is a lot unexploded WWII ordnance all around our work area, and the range is still used by various aircraft training, including gunships.
    One day, as we’re working, we heard another contractor call the RSO and say, “We’re out here on road XXXXXX and found a thingie with fins on it sticking out of the road.”
    Instantly, the RSO said, with great enthusiasm, “DON’T TOUCH ANYTHING!!!! DRIVE AROUND IT!!!” We fell to our knees, laughing.
    Good times.
    Always a pleasure to read your work…

    1. I met a WWII vet one evening who came to my department to turn in an artillary shell.
      He was an anti aircraft gunner on the beach somewhere in Europe. He told me that he personally shot down two German fighters.
      Anyway, he brought back a shell as a souvenir and it was on his fireplace mantle ever since. He and his wife were moving to assisted living and she told him, the piece couldn’t come.
      It was a live 2” shell. OSP bomb squad friend hauled it off for us.

      1. Thanks for that, Tom.
        Makes you take a second look at that nice, elderly war vet next door.
        I had a neighbor…..from Finland, who fought the Russians in the Winter War. We met at a church spaghetti dinner and after he told us they were from Finland, I did the math in my head….he would have been of military age for that time period and I made the mistake of asking him about it during the dinner. His wife sighed, and focused on her food and he told us all about it! I never thought to ask him about what sort of ordnance he had in his living room. He was a ski trooper, directly involved in the fighting. Nice man, though.

  3. I was only mildly interested when I started this piece, but my interest grew the further along I got. By the end I was thinking “this is an EXCELLENT article”. And then I saw it was authored by JWR…….I should have known. Thanks and looking forward to more like this.

  4. In regular service your POW can find it’s way to combat but the way your searched and treated like a criminal on the way home it ain’t worth messing with. I wouldn’t trust the officers in most units either as too many see it as an opportunity to snitch and promote just like with the PMAGs. Heck you’d think sand was a bioweapon worse than covid and cancer.
    They even got sideways about my POW bayonet coming back from the Balkans in an infantry unit.
    Thinking on this I need to go pull out my Grandfathers WW2 Pacific Theater [Arisaka Yype] 38 and oil it down and reminisce.

  5. Active and honorably discharged military personnel should have complete freedom to possess, use, train and operate any firearms whether stateside or overseas.

    (Just like ALL Americans should be able to do as the second amendment says so clearly.)

  6. One other organization that relies extensively on POW is the State Guard. Most State Guard or Defense Force members provide their own uniforms and equipment, including weapons for drill. The Adjutant General can authorize use of National Guard weapons should the need arise, but every State Guardsman I know has a privately owned AR15 pattern rifle and a 9mm or .45 Cal sidearm, including the Doctors, Chaplains and lawyers.

  7. I had a friend who was in Viet Nam in 1968-69 and carried his personal S&W .357mag. His parents sent him several boxes of .357 HP ammo in the mail and the military stopped the delivery and sent the ammo back to his parents. The military included a letter to his parents telling them NOT to send their son anymore ammo, that they would supply him and that hollow point ammo was not allowed due to the Hague Convention, which you were right, the US did not sign that part of.

    1. If the best policy for a survival group is to use identical weapons and calibers, the policy would seem to apply to the military. Carrying an additional backup weapon would seem to be appropriate, however.

  8. The most sought after POW weapon for Army Aviators in Vietnam was the Swedish K but there were MANY unauthorized weapons in Army helicopters. I myself carried a German Pistole 640(b) which was a Browning HiPower made for the German Wehrmacht after they captured the FN plant in Belgium in 1940. A good friend, a crew chief on another of my platoon’s gunship, carried an S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman. We had fellow crewmembers carrying Walther PPs and PPKS and a vast variety of privately owned pistols and shotguns.
    By the way, I had to leave my HiPower in Vietnam but got it back 46 years later

  9. Just a side note. The armor museum closed down at Ft. Knox when the armor school moved to Ft. Benning in 2010 due to BRAC. There is a Patton museum at Ft. Knox but most of the the tanks are gone. I have been told that most of them are in open storage at Ft. Benning but that the armor museum wasn’t reestablished.

    1. I was at the Patton Museum last year, in October, I think. The museum was still definitely there and had just made a major expansion. I cannot imagine that it has closed for good. Perhaps it has been affected by COVID, but not closed permanently.

      Sad to say, you are correct about the fact that most of the armor outside on the museum grounds has been removed. I believe that the Armor School has been moved to Fort Benning, so that is probably the reason for the change.

  10. 1) The killing of 13 soldiers and wounding of 32 others at Fort Hood in 2009 by Army major Nidal Hasan shows some of the issues re private firearms in the military.

    On the one hand, Hasan would probably have been less successful if the other soldiers had not been disarmed by regulations that Hasan ignored.

    On the other hand, he might have been more successful if he had been able to acquire armor-piercing ammo for his FN Five Seven.

    2) 11 years laters, Hasan appeals continue and he still lives. I have never heard of any intel being obtained from him and last I heard he asked ISIS to make him a citizen.

    https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/the-fort-hood-shooting-10-years-later/sentenced-to-death-fort-hood-shooter-has-years-of-appeals-to-come/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan#Prison_life

    1. Mike,
      But then again, Fort Hood might have looked more like the church intervention in Texas, where the rampage was ended in 6.2 seconds by a parishioner. With most officers and senior NCOs armed, Hassan probably wouldn’t have even tried it.
      When I went through basic at Ft. Knox, in 1973, my drill sergeants were carrying 1911s and three loaded magazines, especially when we were under arms because there was a spate of people driving through the base and asking soldiers on the side of the road if they could “see” their M16. They would get in the car with the rifle and drive away. Uncle Sugar frowned on that.

  11. The Viet Nam stories ring a bell with me. One of my acquaintances back in the day was a door gunner. After the first time his helo. got shot down, he was being hunted in the jungle and didn’t feel like he had enough defensive firepower. He had his family send him a shotgun and I believe a .45 auto. As the story goes… he was shot down several times, but always got rescued.

  12. All US Military personnel should have immediate access to firearms 24/7, sadly they do not! How then can they protect themselves and the USA????????????????????

  13. My friend flew ‘mosquitoes’ and SecretSquirrels out of Panama into Nicaragua in the 1970s.

    My friend carried the stupidest weapon ever made — High Standard 10-B 12-gauge bullpup, complete with flashlight.
    Dumb… but cool, and the envy of all the other contractors.

    My friend recalls the 10-B was designed for high-base shells; low-base wouldn’t cycle, turning it into a single-shot… useful if my friend wanted to contain evidence.

    My friend matured significantly since those ‘ten-foot tall and bomb-proof’ days.
    In late-2020, my friend suggests a better defense is a couple-three AR pistols in 5.56 with mufflers… fed by 20-round PMags.

    *****

    A side note from my friend:
    Most noise-producing equipment — motorcycles and chain-saw are examples — comes with a muffler factory-installed.
    Why is a firearm muffler available as a separate option… often costing more than the firearm?

    *****

    As another aside:
    * If my friend was president of these united states of America, my friend would outlaw any ‘law’ outlawing ownership or carrying of any firearm or firearm-related equipment such as mufflers.
    * My friend would also charge anybody expressing a desire to limit individual or business ownership or carrying of any firearms and related equipment with the crime known as ‘treason’.
    * My friend strongly believes the punishment for treason is hanging at a permanent gallows in a public place.
    * My friend thinks conviction-to-drop should be less than three minutes.

    * My friend is pretty sure a way could be found to work-around ‘ex post facto’ restraints so every gallows would be open for business around-the-clock!

    * And rumors of my friend volunteering to ‘work the lever’?
    Well, that would merely be deranged ramblings of an over-the-hill coot, and shouldn’t be accepted as other than for its entertainment value.

    Don’t break into small groups, don’t discuss.

    1. Note that not only is the US not a signatory of the Hague Convention, the Hague Convention ban on hollow point or so-called “dum-dum” bullets applies only to warfare against other signatory countries. Therefore, it would not apply to the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents, since they are not “countries.”

      I have always heard that the best policy is for members of survival groups to have identical weapons in the same caliber. (Of course, “best policy” and “reality” are often very different.) Why should it be any different for soldiers and Marines? In a fight, having a buddy toss you a Glock 17 mag to use in your Sig would be pointless. If he’s carrying a .40 S&W and you are carrying a 9 mm, it is even more pointless.

      I served with a fellow who carried a .38 snubbie in Vietnam. It was his last ditch weapon if everything else failed, and this made sense to me.

      1. No kidding. Treason and execution for a thought crime (“anybody expressing a desire”)?! Geez. For the sake of Marge’s safety maybe we should hope she never falls out of favor with her ‘friend’…

  14. Interesting article on private weapons brought/used in wartime. As I experienced during my active service years, not a lot, but many had them shipped to them from home, often stated as because they were more effective that then issued variety and the trust they placed in them to to the job intended. No matter what you do, you simply cannot do a “proper” job unless you have the right and trusted tools to achieve the desired results.

  15. I always find it ironically disappointing that we are so willing to put the most lethal combat arms in the hands of 18 year olds and train them to kill with prejudice, yet won’t let those same adults walk around in public with much less effective weaponry. Contempt and control.

    We are a nation of double standards.

  16. I recall the Gulf War, just before which the Royal Air Force re-equipped its fighter aircrew with the Walther PP, and took away the Browning Hi-Powers everyone, (including me), had been very happy with. This was done by some stores weenie because they had the Walthers sitting in a corner after the Royal Protection lot had rejected them because they kept jamming (such as when Princess Anne was attacked by the IRA on The Mall), and the requirement numbers were the same. After Nichol and Peters were shot down, John Nichol told me that John Peters had suggested they fight it out with the Iraqis heading towards them with their pistols. John Nichol said “Best not, they’ll probably jam and we’ll really annoy them”. The Iraqi commander they surrendered to immediately took the pistols as war trophies, and fired one off. It jammed.
    The RAF does not allow POWs.

    1. I thought the RAF used Walther PPs as anti-aircraft weapons.

      In the last James Bond movies (Spectre) , Bond whips out his Walther PPK and shoots Blofeld’s helicopter out of the sky even though it was 500 yards away and 400 feet higher in altitude.

      I sure would like some of that special 32 ACP ammunition Britain evidently has developed.

      1. Bond is a former 1950’s naval officer, and doesn’t understand any weapon smaller than a 12″ cannon 😉
        My weapons instructor reckoned you could get 3 good shots with a PP…by breaking it down into barrel, frame and magazine, and throwing them at your enemy. Our preferred tactic was to be very good with the aircraft’s 27mm cannon so that the use of the PP was never required. A third of a second burst would deliver around 18 APHEI rounds, and I averaged 36% hits at manoeuvering targets, which would spoil the bad guy’s whole afternoon.

  17. At our unit, In the 70’s, USA single enlisted men kept their hunting rifle in their uniform locker on base. Often times, after deer hunting, they could be seen cleaning their rifles on the mess deck tables. Hunting was encouraged to keep skills honed.

  18. I get the whole standardized weapons. My wife and I have the same pistols and a spare. We have the same rifles and a spare. If you are in a fight and have a Glock 17 and you need a mag but your buddy is carrying a SIG he can’t just throw you a mag. I think uniformity on that front is important. As for carrying on base, YES everyone should be allowed to carry on base.
    Not allowing units or personnel to use PMAGs is plain stupid. My GI mags would misfeed until I replaced the followers with MAGPUL followers. My PMAGS have never had a single issue.

  19. PMags rock..I have dozens and same with my brother. Never had a failure to feed or other malfunction, ever. Have a few alloys and have a 20 rd one that likes to cant the ammo forward and down. Figure’s the idiot military commanders would have restricted them–those guys egos always get in the way.

  20. This was a really interesting article – thank you!

    Out of curiosity I asked my husband (US Army, Desert Storm era) about his experience with this particular topic. He said they weren’t allowed POWs, anywhere…then added: Of course, it depended on what your job was, and your rank. Officers could get away with a lot.

  21. My father was a veteran of both WW2 and Korea. While in Korea he felt under armed so a friend back in the states sent him a .45 revolver compete with moon clips. Never a man to be unprepared, he later made a trade of two dozen eggs to a local in exchange for a Thompson sub-machine gun. When rotating out he attempted to ship the Thompson home with a note explaining that this was not an issued weapon, the attempt was unsuccessful. Whether he was the victim of a rule following bureaucrat or a nefarious individual who helped himself, the Thompson was never seen again.

  22. In Vietnam, we observed 11 NVA following a stream. we swept down from hill 51 and engaged them. We captured some, one was a colonel, he had a brand new pistol with a holster. I took it off him. We could bring back any non-automatic weapon. The pistol was the one with cord to the holster. I put the gun in my rucksack, half hour latter a chopper appeared and took my pistol. I was told it was given to President Johnston. He took, my pistol!

  23. I was helping a friend go through his deceased father’s old Korean war footlocker and things he brought back that had been in his attic all these years he never talked about it. We found 2 1911’s and an M2 Carbine. Can these still be registered? A friend told me it had to be destroyed that would break my heart. As of now just cleaned and put back. What should he do?

    1. If the receiver is marked “M2” then you are out of luck–the receiver must be destroyed. (But save the parts kit, less the full auto parts. Parts kits are worth a lot of money, these days.) However, if the receiver is marked “M1” then just remove and destroy the Seven Magic Parts. (You’ll need to replace the trigger group pin, or just grind off the pig pivot arms.) That will leave just a legal M1 Carbine. (Proviso: I’m not an attorney. Consult an attorney…)

      1. Early in Operation Iraqi Freedom I was in the office of an an infantry battalion commander and noticed his inbox paperweight was an Iraqi military pistol with a Republican Guard insígnia inlaid in the grips. When I commented on it he reached into his desk drawer and pulled out a factory box with a unissued 9mm pistol just like the one on his desk, spare mag and bore brush included. He said “ have a full drawer of these, you can have one, it only costs your career..”. I passed.
        The bring back rules are idiotic. I understand the reason for prohibiting full auto weapons but a 9×18 handgun?

        1. Just disassemble the carbine and strip as many parts as you can from the barreled receiver. Then use a band saw or cutting torch to cut up the selective fire parts (compare a parts diagram of an M1 versus an M2–to see which ones.) Then cut the receiver into multiple sections, and discard the selective-fire and receiver chunks separately in various dumpsters. That will leave just a receiver stub on the barrel that any gunsmith can then legally handle, to remove. The remaining parts set with stock is worth around $500, in today’s market.

          It is quite sad that the ATF hasn’t declared a registration amnesty, since 1968. The ATF Director can do so, at his discretion. Doing so would remove the “felony” cloud over the heads of tens of thousands of Americans, and raise a lot of revenue. (At $200 per registration.)

    2. I don’t know the details of any (probably unConstitutional, since you mention registration) laws in the state in question, nor how applicable your friend feels that they personally are, but wouldn’t it be a shame if the existence of these items just slipped his mind in the stress of all the other details? Goodness, just SO much to keep track of nowadays…

      1. The issue is Federal law, not any state law. It is the Federal ban on new machinegun registrations that began in 1986. (With the Hughes Amendment to FOPA-’86.) All privately-owned machineguns that were created after then, or that predated it, but that were not registered before the 1986 deadline are considered contraband, and there is no longer a mechanism for registering them. And because and ATF ruling has declared “once a machinegun, always a machinegun” the “M2” model marking is the sticking point. There is no plausible deniability that the gun was never a selective-fire full auto.

        1. Interesting legal situation developing now – since the ATF will not register these auto weapons, they do not collect a tax. But the administration has argued (in the case of Obamacare) that a “tax” that collects no money is not a tax, hence the underlying law is null and void. Recently a challenge to the ATF refusal to collect the tax resulted in the dropping of charges against a person seeking to register a new auto weapon. Stay tuned….

  24. While in Israel in the late 70’s and early 80’s the 1911 was much sought after, but hard to come by. Browning and Star pistols were prevalent as were Enfield rifles and revolvers. We referred to the Enfield & Webley, revolvers, and Enfield rifles as realocation of scarce resources from the time of the British occupation. Most of us carried whatever we could get our hands on, mostly Enfield and Webley revolvers and Egyptian Helwan 9mm pistols. .380/200 revolver ammunition, 9mm sub gun ammo, and AK ammunition could be found laying on the ground all over the Golan back then, most of it in usable condition.

  25. In the early 1980’s to late 80’s I was a NCO in an National Guard Infantry Unit. As the State I was residing in did not allow National Guard Troops any ammunition at any Guard Drills, only one or two of us were handed one loaded 45 magazine for our 1911A1’s so at least we could protect the M2 heavy barrel 50 BMG machine guns, the M60 machine guns, the M16A1 rifles, and the M203 grenade launchers we transported to every training. This was a large quantity of weapons for an entire Infantry Company. If there was to be a spot inspection, we were to eject the mag and hope to grind it into the earth as to not get caught with live ammunition. We were all graduates of basic and advanced infantry schools. What do you think we trigger pullers thought of the Government employees making these types of decisions?

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