E-Mail 'Beretta 92FS Stainless, by Pat Cascio' To A Friend

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1. As a 24 year Army Vet spread over a 31 year period (7 year break in service), I carried both the 1911A1 and the M9, and I currently own more than one of both…

   I was one of those know-it-alls who at the beginning, berated the military for doing something stupid like dropping the 1911 from it’s inventory. But after a couple of days at the range (and several years) of carrying and shooting the M9, I became quite efficient at it and have no complaints.

   After thousands of rounds that myself and my fellow unit members fired (including two tax-payer funded courses to Gunsight. Thank you tax payers.), I only saw one catastrophic malfunction (no injuries) and that was (literally) a ‘broken’ locking block that came apart in 3 pieces once cleared and disassembled. It was replaced with a newer upgraded (casting / hardened?) locking block and continued to take all the punishment you could dish out. (I was under the assumption that the weak point on the M9 was the ‘locking block’ and not necessarily cracking of the slide… Learn something new every day. Thanks Pat.)

   Although I now carry a G26 and have several G19’s, I have no hesitations, and feel very comfortable and confidant about picking up a M9 / 92F as my main sidearm. (and a FYI side note here… several years ago, advertised in a well known monthly gun news magazine, they had several ‘ Law Enforcement’ trade-ins of the Beretta 96 in .40 S&W. The ‘kits’ to swap over a 92 9mm to a 96 in .40 S&W was as simple as clearing / disassemble and replace the slide, barrel and magazine. The ‘kit’s were about $150 and now you had a second caliber pistol if you so desired. I do have a kit and I did test it at the time of purchase, but I need another caliber to shoot like I need a flat tire in the middle of nowhere, so it never gets used, but is in the safe ‘IF’ I so desire…)

   I too, recommend a Beretta 92 if you decide you want a full size sidearm in 9mm and as stated, with the choices of different 9mm ammo types out there, It will serve you well.

   1. Years ago the Border Patrol issued the .40 S&W Beretta 96. They had a lot of problems with breakages. They then went to something from H&K. Now they issue the Glock 19.

2. Just bought 500 rounds of Wolf Military Classic 115 Grain FMJ. My 92 will not fully insert the next round, Previously put 2000 rounds of TulAmmo 115 Grain FMJ without a single malfunction. Anybody else have problems with the Wolf 9mm?

3. I purchased my first and only 92F about 30 years ago for $525. It was one of the my first guns that I could legally purchase since I had just turned 21. I still have it and have enjoyed shooting it over the years. Just recently my only child decided to join the US Navy. Before she went to boot camp we dusted off the 92F and made 2 trips to the range. I showed her how to disassemble, assemble, clean and shoot and once at boot camp she was miles ahead of the others in her company. Our time together paid off because out of 110 peers she was one of only 5 that qualified for marksman! She later told me that she was pissed that she was a few points short of sharpshooter. The only downside to my purchase of the 92F 30 years ago is the simple fact that the gun has not gone up in value at all. One of the few guns I own that I’ll be lucky to break even if and when I ever sell it. But then again the time her and I spent together and then her using that to gain recognition by the US Navy is priceless.

4. I always turn off my adblocker when viewing the Survival Blog. It is a constant process because your IP addresses rotate but the Survival Blog ads are useful and even enjoyable. I have purchased from SBlog suppliers many times.

   On another point. The gun control pushers aren’t thick skulled at all. The know what they are doing. The happenings in places like Coeur D’ Alene with only motivate them to try harder. When the guns are gone so is the Republic.

   That’s just the way it is.

   1. My apologies. I intended to place my comments in the first thread. Tom

5. 1) Combat soldiers had a right to complain about a round that failed to stop enemies at close range even when shot repeatedly. The military was restricted to Full Metal Jacket.

   2) The whole point of a 9mm handgun for the Navy SEALs was it using the same ammo as their silenced H&K MP5 submachine guns. Hence the buyers remorse when there was problems with the submachinegun ammo.

   3) The huge grip of the Beretta 92 made it harder for female officers to qualify — although I knew a female Air Force lieutenant who managed to do so. But the military has a tight time budget for training.

   4) Some of the main objectives of the Modular Handgun System (MHS)procurement was to (a) procure a piece with multiple grips that would work for most of the military population including females and (b) get a round that was more effective than the 9mm NATO FMJ in a gun that could shoot tens of thousands of rounds without falling apart. The procurement was also to fix some other shortcoming of the 92: no way to attach a silencer and no way to attach lasers, lights,etc.

   5) The Army’s tissue damage model indicated the superiority of the 40 S&W over 9mm and 40 S&W was favored until the Pentagon looked at the cost and the tears of our NATO allies if we discarded 9mm. DOD then had its lawyers issue a ruling that hollow points were okay to use after all.

   This timely ruling coming about 14 YEARS into the Global War on Terror and after almost a century of requiring troops to use FMJ.

   6) Note that the SIG “win” was basically SIG buying the procurement with an extremely low price after losing procurements to Glock for BATF and FBI contracts.
   I’ve seen no evidence that the full MHS testing was ever done and no publishing of the results.

   And the MHS procurement was based in part on the special Winchester 9mm ammo that will be supplied to the military.

   7) I don’t disagree with Mr Cascio’s judgment that the Beretta 92 is a decent piece , although I think it is a pretty large gun for concealment.

   However, the usual drill for a jam is to hit the magazine, rack the slide and pull the trigger again.

   Some soldiers were infuriated to discover that doing this put the 92 on SAFE since it has a slide mounted safety. Leaving the incompletely trained soldier impotently squeezing the trigger again and again as the jihadi raised his AK-47. Although the heavy weight of the 92 probably made it a good throwing rock in such events.
   (MHS fixed this also.)

6. I have a couple of 92FS. They are very accurate and well bulit. There’s something more to a sturdy pistol with a metal frame than just smoother shooting and a more stable platform due to a few extra ounces of weight. It’s hard to describe. I have had zero issues with either pistol. I’ve been working to simplify and standardize on Glock so these will eventually get traded off but I suppose I’ll miss them a bit down the road.

7. I was in the Navy when we switched from the 1911 to the M9. Not a bad gun but I was never able to shoot Expert with it like I had the old beat up 1911s although it was theoretically a more accurate weapon. Probably just not enough rounds to get used to it. I am a better shot now than I was then so if I tried it today, I might do better.

   I bought my son a Taurus P100 which is a 40 SW Taurus build of the M9 essentially. It never performed well especially with heavier bullets although I had numerous friends who praise the 9MM version of it. I don’t think the lockup was strong enough for 40 SW. If there is a Beretta version in 40 SW I would be skeptical of it. I don’t think the weapon is fundamentally designed for it.

   I just bought my daughter a Sig M17 and although that striker trigger takes a little getting used to for me, that thing is a tack driver. I will purchase at least one more of those if I can. I am currently working up reloads for it.

   In the .45 vs 9MM debate I have also read about the FBI studies. And just on weight the 9MM makes a lot of sense. You can carry more ammo and hold more in a magazine. However I notice that many special forces and contractor people I read about make reference to their 1911s. I don’t know how prevalent the .45 is in the special forces world but it seems to have some popularity. Makes me wonder.

   I still drool over a friend of mine’s setup. He has a Doug Chow 1911 and a custom accurized M1A in a beautiful pelican case. I have shot that 1911 and I can hit anything with it. And I shot Expert with rack grade M14s as well so an accurized one would be a dream.

   However if I was going to buy a semi auto today or recommend one to a new purchaser it would be a Sig M17. That and an AR15 are probably the smartest choices today IMO. Not as exciting to me as a 1911 and an M1A but more practical in many ways.

8. I have had my Beretta 92FS Stainless for many years. Over time I have added VZ grips, a Gemtech threaded barrel and a compensator…this pistol is sweet. Accurate, can’t get it to jam, a great trigger in single action mode. This would be my “go to” pistol if I were limited to just one. However, saying that, when it comes to concealed carry, it’s my Glock 19.

9. Over a century ago, our military learned a valuable lesson about effective combat rounds in a pistol. We had forsaken the 45 in favor of a lighter weight, less expensive, more “manageable” cartridge, with disastrous results. We went back to 45 for one important reason; it was effective at stopping an assailant “at caliber”. It has been ever since, and nothing about modern manufacturing methods has changed that fact.

   Going back to 38 caliber (9mm) was more a political move than a practical one. The 9mm high cap is here to stay. Might as well try and make the most of it. I liked shooting the Beretta at the range; comfortable fit and mild recoil in my big mitts. You do what you can with what you got. For me, a semi auto with 15 rounds of 10 mm hot loads is my preferred combat pistol configuration. It would take some getting used to, but if I was soldiering again, that is just a matter of getting to the range regularly and qualifying with it. I think the 9mm is probably a good compromise for those who remain in the rear echelon. Can’t win a war without the boys in the back doing their part.

10. Hmm I’m one of the old guys that trained / used a 1911 .45, still have my 1911 Remington Rand, but carry a Bersa thunder and sometimes a Springfield armory range officer compact 9mm ( my ROC 9 ). Some years ago, I bumped into a Beretta 92, ( LEO trade in ), had the money and the handgun was there and I took it home. but never shot it and later gave it to my son who had carried one as a army mp for 7 years. He loves it ( good for him )

11. Nothing wrong with a 9mm or the Beretta (other than the grip size for smaller hands as mentioned above). That having been said, Delta operators still use the 1911, often carrying two in urban settings (granted, they would be much better off with the Glock 41). The Marines also purchased 50,000 1911s a few years back for the Recon Marines. Saying the 9mm round is as capable as the .45ACP with the same kinds of ammo is like saying a 20ga shotgun is just as effective as a 12ga shotgun. Another similar comparison would be the .30/30 cartridge with the .45/70 or the 5.56×45 compared to the 7.62×51. When you really want to stop something, a bullet that is twice as heavy with a lot more frontal area, going about the same speed, is likely to be more effective. The most dangerous game in the world is an armed man. Best to deal with that threat using the biggest stick you can effectively manage. For many people and for many reasons that carry stick is the 9mm. For many people with rifles it is the 5.56×45.

12. The ranges that rent guns can’t keep them running (the M92s). The safety/decocker is complex and maladroit compared to the 1911.
    The FBI published an article in the early 1980s claiming that the 9mm was the “deadliest handgun in America”. Two years later, the Miami/Dade shootout happened and the FBI had their fannies handed to them. The Wonder Nine was Frisbee’d into the dumpster and they went on a wild goose chase to find their ultimate duty pistol, wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on the 10mm. In the end, they ended up with a huge pistol with down-loaded ammo that had the same muzzle energy as a plain vanilla .45 ACP load. Somebody figured out the .40 S&W solved their problems with small handed shooters and more power than the Nine, and the Universe was all better.
    Until the Wonder Nine contingent arose again, and now we’re all back to 1984. The same ammo tech that improves the Nine also improves the .40 and .45. They’re just not equal, anymore than 115 lb female army rangers are just as effective as 180 lb males, no matter how hard the PC generals wish it so. When the next war starts, we’ll see the Army scrap all of the PC crap and go back to what works.
    The new SIG will be a huge improvement.
    Decades ago, DoD rigged a Glock 17 for a lights-out endurance test. A machine fed rounds through it night and day, until 700,000 rounds clicked on the counter and they just turned the machine off. I’m sure they cleaned it once in a while, but the point is, Glocks work and would have made a good service pistol for the US military. SOCOM’s commander just handed down the edict, “Go buy the damned G19 and be done with it already.” They seem to be happy with it.
    All my 1911s gather dust, have been for 20 years. I finally overcame my prejudices and bought the plastic gun(s). Lots of them in the same caliber. Can’t have six different guns and calibers, magazines, holsters, etc. Standardization rules.
    Don’t own a 92 and haven’t ever seen one in a shooting course. Never fired one. 95% of students show up with Glocks.
    Once in a while I’ll lay a revolver on the table for the battlefield pickup drill, where all students fire each other’s artillery. My OWN DAUGHTER ran the revolver dry, and could not imagine how to reload it! Right then, I knew I was a BAD DAD! The main instructor did a tutorial on reloading revolvers because few of the other students had ever seen one, either. Strangely, she now carries a J-frame .38 on her person all day, and leaves her G17 at home. She LIKES it.
    We truly are lucky to have all these magnificent pistols to own and train with. In most other countries, Glocks are status symbols like Mercedes Benzes…very expensive and rare. God Bless America.
    Last week here in Salt Lake, a guy I know who owns a jewelry store in downtown called 911 because of a fight with rioters, and the dispatcher said, “You’re on your own” and disconnected. All the cops were busy with protestors and thugs. All this while the power is on and groceries are on the shelves.

13. Some Conjecture on the Beretta Model 92F. =
    We all know, the pistol is big and heavy, with an almost 5 inch barrel. The Beretta Model 92F just might make a good semi-automatic civilian version of a legal UZI or Tommy Gun. The full capacity magazines make the Beretta a possible choice as an excellent second gun.

    The Beretta would make a good pistol to carry along in the trunk of a car, inside of a secured strongbox. .. Besides use as a house gun, or when camping, fishing or vacationing; +the Beretta could be taken along during the trips to town to buy supplies or for medical appointments.
    … … The mob riots this week demonstrate once again the need to have a ‘get home bag’ ~ and a good extra get home gun. People might have to walk home or drive a dangerous route home.

    As often pointed out here on Survivalblog, the ~grey-man appearance is needed in many situations. The Beretta 92F is a little big for everyday carry. But, during emergencies the Beretta would work. +The pistol would fit into a backpack, man bag, or the wife’s purse. The regular EDC gun would be carried concealed. [Grey Man when needed] … … As said earlier, it would be good to have a type of legal UZI or Tommygun. Full capacity magazines are available for the Beretta 92F.

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    The NOT so much conjecture: =
    In the Ocean of the civilian Free Market system, the Colt 1911 with its clones, and the Glock with its clones, have been widely chosen as the best guns to use and shoot.

    People should understand such things before they buy a gun, and then try to shoot a particular gun before purchase. = Pistols have grip-angles, grip sizes, bore axis, ammunition capacities, overall size, types of ~safeties, purchase prices and ‘shootability’ for a particular person.
    … … Pistols need to be reliable to always work, accurate enough, and also shoot a big enough lead pumpkin to be ‘stop’ a villain. [Recoil, accuracy and ‘stopping’ power have offsets for many people. A person shooting a huge lead pumpkin could end up shooting almost all the bullets at the moon, instead of the villains.

    Some shooting ranges have guns to rent, and try out. … Some ranges have a ‘ladies’ night for the gals. The NRA has courses on guns taught by other woman, “Women for Women.” … … Women with children or just a mother’s heart are concerned about keeping a gun safe from children. … There’s plenty of gun information around for both men and women.

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