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20 Comments

  1. Nice update. I have been considering self-sufficiency in current day literature versus historical documents and decided that I needed to rethink my definition to historical. We may not have the option of current day amenities. And even if we do, it is evident biblically that there will come a time when, for whatever period, there will be no buying and selling for believers anyway. Best keep the old tools and knowledge (books and printed articles as well as skills) passed down to the next generation for those who will need it even if we do not in our time. I’ve decided that this will not happen naturally, but needs to be planned. So, I’m planning. Thanks for the validation.

  2. Very, very few people can become self-sufficient. That is just a simple fact. Do what you can and be happy with your personal results. Great to strive to be self-sufficient but do not get discouraged if you do not reach that ultimate goal.
    Humans have ALWAYS traded with others. A point to remember.

  3. Definitely agree. There are so many layers to this issue. Most people don’t even have the education of how to survive a true catastrophe. Even most preppers. They don’t have a concept of living primitively, even to have read a book on it, let alone actually practicing it. To some extent, that is true even for me. I have lots to learn. The concept of trade outside of dollars is pretty foreign to most people too. It is so true, trade has to happen because no one can provide every single one of their needs. We have to live in a community and be able to “buy” from others. Someone may need to start building buggies and someone else need to start breeding mules.

  4. I think about this often. It is a real balancing game with “everyday normal life”. Population density has both positive and negative connotations. I believe being in a small rural community with cottage industries and good relationships is really key.

  5. b-h-north-Idaho,
    Nice article. I agree with a lot of it. Even the best laid plans of mice and men, well you know the rest. Even the RA compound is not tenable long term for various reasons. There are things that will be needed supplied not local. Unexpected illness and sickness inevitable need for skilled medical expertise. Even healthy young people have emergency medical issues.The extreme remote location I think is more dangerous than a small rural community for many reasons. Also in the US there is no such thing as truly remote anymore. In an extreme situation such as complete economic collapse or civil war or nuke exchanges between US and foreign powers or a pandemic, there are to many people local to the RA compound who know you, where you are, and they have a real accurate idea what you have and what your capabilities are. Starving they will come for your stuff. Hunger and thirst and discomfort is a real mover and shaker. My sons and I and a couple of associates would figure out how to smoke you out given extreme circumstance 🙂

    1. Heard this same sentiment from some guys while working construction in kailfornia, I guess that might work in some instances. You might get lucky,or you might encounter a compound that has dealt with varmints of all sorts on a regular basis for years. Either way, it should cure your hunger, thirst, and discomfort issues.

  6. The thing about trade, especially in rural areas is you have to have something everyone else wants/ needs.. Ammo, Guns, and almost everything else that has to do with prepping is pretty far down the list in my AO, Everybody has them, nobody wants another box of .22’s or a box of canning jars for payment.. Heavy equipment, Dump trucks, rock, gravel, Logs, anything that has to do with road building and logging, fishing and hunting. We have it coming out our ears…. Whats needed is Tradesmen, Painters, Plumbers, concrete guys, Electricians, HVAC people, concrete, building supplies, Try to get any of these guys to make the 80 mile round trip to my digs is pretty hard. Lewiston is even farther at 100 miles RT.

  7. I’m still looking for my place in the world.

    I found a place that is almost perfect, well sorta. It’s in the upper peninsula of Michigan. It has 80 acres, half forest and half farm land. The house is actually roomy, there’s a 30 x 40 pole barn, other out buildings, well and septic. It even has a 100 gallon fuel tank near the barn. It’s on an island, 21 square miles, population 89. There is a ferry service most of the year, the key word being most. It takes about 20 minutes just to cross the strait, 5 minutes to cross and another 15 to load and unload, then the 25 minute drive to town. Oh, and the price of the property is just phenomenal.

    Here is where reality started to set in. I’m old, dudes and dudetts, just had my 68th birthday. My wife is the same age. I’m really getting tired of living in the cold north. This property is another 350 miles north of where I am. If I was even 20 years younger, I wouldn’t bat an eye at the opportunity this property presents.

    Downsides, too far from town, and too far from a hospital, too far from shopping, too far from what family we have left. I’m not even sure there is an island constable, so no emergency services. Did I mention, I’m old. Working on plans B, C, D,and E. We’ll get there.

    1. Charles – I’ve been to your island, scouted it out for a place to deer hunt. Made it as far as the old brick Coast Guard station on the north end of the island. Great place for isolation, but deep winter snows and lack of access to living amenities would make it difficult to live on your island on a daily basis. Deer seemed to have a hard time there too. Ended up hunting on the UP mainland near Escanaba. I lived briefly in north Idaho, now live 25 miles north of Detroit. Just gotta adapt to what life throws at you . .

    2. Charles K., yep another 68 year-old fella here. TEOTAKWI is a gradual process for us. My brain seeks answers from my younger, stronger self. Present self has to face certain realities. Pain in places unexpected. A limp here, an ache there.

      Sigh.

      Carry on

  8. So really, you are talking about the need to maintain law and order because without it commerce is not possible. I would love to hear your thoughts. I have significant concerns over gang violence. I even sold my Suburban/Urban Garden because of proximity to government housing and gang activity. There was a contract out on my grocery store owner friend, actually his father. And now at my Urban Garden location we had a car jacking in a location that has never seen such.

  9. Charles K. –

    Come on down to the Texas Panhandle. We have milder weather – well, the temperatures are milder. The winds and hailstorms can be rather exciting…

    You can find old farms and ranches down here at reasonable prices. The more land, the less you will pay per acre. In other words, if you want 10 acres, the price might be $200K, or $20K per acre. If you bump it up to 50 acres you might be looking at $225K or $4500/ac and if you bump it up to 100 acres, the price might end up at $200K or $2000/ac.

    Summers are hot but winters are milder than the Rocky Mtns where we used to live, the humidity levels are low, the neighbors are nosy (easily bored when there isn’t much else to do) but have a “live and let live” philosophy and there isn’t much in the way of government intrusion on your land, especially if you are not growing a cash crop and looking for subsidies through the farm bills each year. No zoning or building codes if you are away from town. Lots of the land here is used for hunting these days. The rest is in cotton and cattle.

    You can leave your snowmobile back in Michigan.

    1. Thought about Texas. Lived in El Paso as a teenager. That was when far west Texas was a good place to live. Looking at east Tennessee and the mountains of west North Carolina. Much closer to family that I trust, much lower taxes, better weather than Michigan, cheaper car insurance (Michigan has the highest car insurance rates in the US). We’ll see where we end up.

  10. B.H. – You are SO right!
    It will turn out to be true for everyone who preps that there will be a moment some time into the emergency when you will have an “Oops” incident…

    You will find that there is something you forgot. Either flat-out forgot or completely miscalculated how much of it you needed.
    And it doesn’t matter WHAT it is, it will probably something different for each of you.

    You then have a limited number of options.
    1. Can we cope without it?
    2. What can we use instead?
    3. Who can we trust enough to trade with for it?

    If you already, in (relatively) good times have a network in place of trusted people, you have massively reduced your risks of failure.

    You will then need to work out what you are willing to trade for it, but that is for another day!

    God Bless…

  11. Excellent, thought provoking article both for people who have embarked on this path and for those who are considering it. You really know what you are talking about and have developed a fine rubric here.

    My husband and I (we live remotely in Alaska) have found that the more skills we have developed over time (with the right tools), the less reliant we have become on commercial services and products. In addition, the simpler the lifestyle choices (for example, lots of perennial food and medicinal plants) and construction, the cheaper and easier this life is to maintain. Low standards, adaptability, and ingenuity help, too!

  12. Charles K.- Don’t be so certain that you can’t make your ideal survival setup just because it is not like the near-perfect models you have read about on the internet or in novels, even great ones like Mr. Rawles writes. We are all different. There are potentially great survival homes nearly everywhere, with the obvious exceptions of large cities and near high-population areas and a few other kinds of places that you already know to avoid. My ideal survival home turned out to be in a state that is not in the redoubt. My suggestion to you would be to pick an area not TOO far from family, with a low/medium cost of living, and at least 100 miles from high-population areas. Then, look for a comfortable home in a place where you would enjoy living. And RELAX- you are on the right path.

  13. Very interesting article.

    I noticed that you neglected to mention the category of location that falls between your definition of suburban on 1-2 acre lots and urban. That’s “country village”. This may be because this type of village is more specific to the east coast? Anyway-it is my specific situation of a small village with some resources surrounded immediately by farmland/forest but 30-45 min away from a metro large enough to have Fast Food, big box stores and a hospital.

    In my experience many of the homes in this type of setting have at least a small garden, a high proportion of folks still hunt, and many residents are DIY minded

    This type of small village will be exactly the kind of locus for regional trade. Indeed it exists because it was created in a time when our economy was without automation or mechanized transport to fill the need for a locus of trade (and culture)—where I am you tend to have a small village about a 15 min drive in every direction and a bigger village or town every 30 min-that works out to be about days wagon or horse trip in every direction …

    Sure, you can’t be self sustaining in a village or small town, but then again as your post pointed out it’s really hard to be self sufficient in most of the “Homestead” situations. Yes, in the village you have to deal with other folks, and while that can be a detriment to security, it can also be a benefit. Once initial chaos dies down and, as you point out, people strive to return to some sense of normalcy, people in a village, who already are neighbors & a community (much more than in a city or suburb) are likely to create some kind of security, look out for each other, and provide a trade of resources & skills for each other (not in some sort of socialistic utopia way, but as a commerce & trade agreement). Especially as people age or have physical limitations that may make it difficult or even prevent them from being able to manage the intense work of a homestead, a village may be a wiser choice. Even the elderly can offer babysitting, or sit on the porch w a shotgun, or help snap peas…

    I just think it’s interesting that the village/small town is universally ignored by preppers as a viable option.

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