E-Mail 'Guest Post: A Discussion on “Bugging Out”, by Max Alexander' To A Friend

17 Comments

1. Good article, thank you!

   “Making decisions”- this is the hard one for “preppers” as many feel they have to “research” things for a few years before making a decision. There isn’t time for that in a fight. We have to learn to exercise our decision making muscles now, or risk losing all from inaction in a fight.

   This is one of many lessons played out time and time again in training like the Force on force team tactics training with the UTM man marker rounds. The team or the team leader that sits on the “X” thinking about what to do next is usually rolled up quickly. Hence why you need the shorter decision making process.

   “Have a team”- another lesson that is drilled in at Force on force team tactics. One of the classes last year involved one squad that clearly trained together regularly and one ad hoc thrown together there at class team. In other words, one crew used to working together and one ad hoc crew similar to most prepper’s fantasies about throwing in with some unknown people from their subdivision at the last minute.

   The results? Near absolute slaughter. The crew that was used to working together rolled up the ad hoc crew handily 75% of the time. Even with a few experienced people and some pushing from the leadership the ad hoc crew prevailed just a small portion of the time.

   Analysis on that for the “prepper”- the thrown together at the last minute group of people you barely know from your subdivision with varying levels of experience stands little chance against a real crew that is organized and trains together regularly. That’s reality, not a cute fiction story that makes you think you don’t have to go to the work of grouping up with like minded people ahead of time.

2. A good article, but for me, this is not an option at this time. I might have a location to get to, about 3 hours away with relations, but no answer on being able to show up. There is room, and they would need it, but…..we shall see.

3. Wise advice. The enormity and risk of “bugging out” can be seen in the LDS recommended quantity of grain for a year. How are you going to move 2000 lbs of grain for a family of 5-6?

4. Excellent article. The big thing for me is team building. Be neighborly, get to know like minded neighbors, start a dialogue on the subject as stated by Mr. Alexander, then train together. Best to get professional training. I know, professional training is expensive, but it needs to be considered as part of your preps. The team fighting does not come naturally, even if all your buddies are hunters.

5. I’m not bugging anywhere. The last 9 years of my life have been all about making sure I don’t have to. First step was move out of the city. Second was become self sufficient. Mission accomplished.
   If somebody wants my place more than I do they can “try” to take it.
   I’m 60 years old, worked hard all my life and my body is falling apart. Constant surgical repair seems to be the norm. There is no way I’m going to be able to walk a long distance let alone carry enough on my back to keep me alive more than three or four days.

6. Carrying a pack in an evacuation is not a good idea. In S. America, they will use a razor blade to cut the bottom of your pack and make off with the contents. A belly pack and skills might prove more valuable than a lot of “stuff” in a heavy pack.

7. I think if one is to hunker down, numbers are a huge advantage. If one can get a crew with enough capable men that can create an outer perimeter, a mid perimeter and a stand your ground inner crew, they can ward off many intruders with sniper fire located in the strategic locations, elevated if possible. Have some situated at a greater distance that can be called in to hit the intruders from the rear. Set the trap, fight to their deaths. Escape routes with protected fire from the other blinds. Fox holes, tree stands and other natural blinds depending on terrain of course. Crossing fields of fire. Some older men who shoot well, could create a very effective shooting force. The younger out the furthest, the oldest back protecting the homestead. At that point, booby traps could have a significant roll. All this would benefit greatly from a lot of sand bags, etc. Dig in, wisely.

   Great article. Love all his works.

8. Max, the difficulty I have with your article is how you suggest that a discussion would ensue. Yet you front-load your piece with ideas to shutter any disagreement with the status quo perspective on this site. Most “city slickers” don’t have the training or skills to survive and thrive in the woods. Some trainers of this skill-set include Tom Brown, Dave Canterbury, Mors Kochanski(?) in Canada, among others.
   If the group in “Patriots” didn’t evac to the woods and “live off the land,” they wouldn’t have made it!
   A different viewpoint would argue that the USA is daughter Babylon (as in Rev. 18) due to the overwhelming match with current practices here. Maybe we need to listen for the Spirit and/or the end-times Elijah to beckon us to depart totally from America before it’s burned up! Thus, a retreat may be a waste of time and money. Better to develop bushcraft skills to enjoy God’s creation, etc. as well as prepare spiritually for a post-tribulation rapture.
   Cheers, Dave from Texas

   1. “A different viewpoint would argue that the USA is daughter Babylon (as in Rev. 18) due to the overwhelming match with current practices here. Maybe we need to listen for the Spirit and/or the end-times Elijah to beckon us to depart totally from America before it’s burned up! Thus, a retreat may be a waste of time and money.” – Precisely what I have been thinking. But I have no real meaningful solution due to financial limitations.

      1. PJPrepper–I’m one who holds to the view that Rev. 12 may teach that the “woman” given the 2 wings of the great eagle refers to the earthly bride of Christ. And that a place in the wilderness will be prepared and protected by God for the duration of the last 3.5 years of Great Tribulation. He will beckon us to “come out of her My people”(Rev. 18:4).The location may be in Israel or western Jordan region, and He’ll help us to get there!
         Dave from Texas

9. Good article, however I think the author is just thinking in terms of modern conflict. Conflict would most likely devolve to a late 19th century one. In that atmosphere if you have hardened your house ballistically and have strong points around it, such as hardened fighting positions, that have watchers in place you can fight and win. Remember these guys attacking in reality will not have air support and artillery to root you out. Just like forts and blockhouses worked in the 18th and 19th century so would this. You would still need a disciplined group to hold it and still a need a plan to fall back and maybe counter attack if possible though or bug out.

10. The first obstacle to defending your neighborhood, will probably be [persons] with their hands on their hips, obstructing and questioning your every instruction. That is generally why there is no Neighborhood Protection Plan in place where I live. These shrieking harpies inhabit large swaths of these plains, and feel both entitled and in charge, based on their mouthy and limited experience. They really don’t know anything about survival, and are dedicated to their own comfort. I don’t intend to bug out and die with the thousands of these wasteoids, of either violence, or dehydration. My bugging out will come AFTER the mass die off of these “people”. I carried a 110-130 lb. rucksack when I was 19, in VN, nearly fifty years ago. No illusions.I might make it a block with that now. My progeny are youthful, and somewhat skillful. We’ll adapt to what needs to be done, in place,or on the march.

11. The biggest problem with all these bugging out scenarios is the timing. If you wait for an event to occur that could put you in harms way before you decide to bug out, you have probably reduced your chances of survival by at least 50%.

    It will reduce further if you have family members that are not physically capable of providing much help along the way. After an event, the military will likely assume control of an area…especially if it is a large city. Their objective in the beginning will be containment.

    If you have to get through military checkpoints, you may as well stay home. They would likely take everything of use from you before they turn you back.

    The time to bug out i before the need arises…but therein lies the rub. No one wants to give up their lifestyle for an unknown…because doubt remains if the potential event will really occur. On the other hand, if you choose to bug in…and remain seemingly in good health while outside, the multitudes are starving and drifting aimlessly from trash can to trash can looking for food, you will be faced with hundreds if not more people doing everything they can to get at your supplies.

    Its a no win situation.

12. 1. Not a prepper or Military person.
    But found the article interesting and informative. But growing up on the prairies, we dealt with natural disasters. These came in the form of tornados, hail, flood, draught and of course fire. But the thing is the next farm over was a good distance away and what was happening, was right on top of you in very short order most times. But we seem to get through it or not in some cases. So allot of preplanning was undertaken by adults and older siblings, but quite a few things where decided as the crisis unfolded. Then normally a discussion between interested parties decided how things maybe could have done better or gone more smoothly afterwards.
    I understand the point of the article, about arm maunders coming for you and your families. But for most people like the ones in southern Texas, it is not. There is another storm on its way and where it impacts no one knows right now, so maybe prepare for the worst and hope for the bes

13. Max,
    I learned a lot from your article. Almost 60 years old, with many children and grandchildren, through much hard work and discipline I’m more fit than most 30 year olds. Am hardening a home in the country, raising livestock, starting to garden, and getting to know all the neighbors around me. It’s a start. Now I need to work on putting a “team” together.

14. bugging out with a known destination is one thing, but bugging out without knowing where you are going isn’t bugging out, its being a refugee.

15. I major drawback to this article is the known fact most survivalists do not want to know each other, are leary of everyone, and prefer the lone wolf mentality. I have tried three separate times to start basic preparedness groups in three separate states. They all ended with just one meeting and no one talking to each other. Most only wanted what they could get out of it and had no sense or desire to become a part of any “team”. So this whole concept needs to be forgotten. In modern America no one cares to be a part of any team. They only think of themselves. Those days are over.

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