Dear Mr. Rawles,
On the subject of generators, I was wondering what your thoughts were on fuel.
Recently, the municipality I live in equipped it’s municipal buildings with large generators powered by propane. My thought was that a wiser choice would have been diesel. My reasoning was:
Propane can only be provided by large trucks with specialized equipment or by smaller, but heavy, containers. In a situation where the roads may be blocked or impassable, a propane truck would not be able to get through.
It’s hard to convince a propane dealer to come out with his truck for a smaller delivery such as when you are looking to just ‘top off’ your tank From a re-supply standpoint, I sort of favor diesel.
If roads are closed or impassable, diesel can be delivered by something as simple as filling five gallon fuel cans and transporting them on snow machines [(snowmobiles)], horses, pack frames, etc.
In a true emergency, there are more re-supply points, as diesel can be found in the tanks of municipal vehicles, in storage tanks at the municipal garage, in private storage tanks at the bus depot and construction yards, etc. And again, in a pinch it can be man-portable by using smaller containers.Your thoughts? – RMV
Hi Jim and Family,
I wondered if you had heard the actual hard facts on the proposed ban on properties housing more than 1,000 gallons of LP? From what I understand, this will be a very large feat to register, prove need, and obtain such a quantity.
In my region, 1,000 gallons does not last very long drying corn. I understand that we in the agri-economy will still be able to obtain it. But, I guess we can add this to the ever expanding list of common items that are being made difficult at best to obtain. Maybe stocking up sooner than later is a goal. I sure don’t like your predictions. Time is starting to tell. – The Wanderer
James:
Having had the opportunity to run/install/maintain all sorts of generators. Propane is by far the easiest, and the cleanest fuel for standby generators, and the fuel never goes bad. To get any sort of quantity of diesel legally stored on your property takes an act of God and reams of paper: Rules, EPA regulations, containment systems, et cetera. And this country is set up for propane delivery, not diesel delivery.
While I won’t deny the longevity of diesel engines, I can tell you that propane engines last almost as long. And to get a 1,000 gallon propane tank delivered to my house tomorrow takes a phone call. No papers, no permits not anything but money. Try putting a 1,000 gallon diesel tank in your yard. (Legally )
If anyone is thinking of long term power ( TEOTWAWKI ) then they ought to be looking at [photovoltaic] solar panels and inverters, as getting diesel will be harder to obtain than propane. Mainly as they will reserve the diesel for trucks, military and police. But propane? It’s a consumer item mainly used to cook and heat with, so it will be available to you and me.
I am adamant with my clients to not look at diesel for all these reasons.
I have a 20 KW Onan water cooled genset at my house that has 80 hours on it now, burns 2 gallons per hour and I have 1000 gallons in reserve. That coupled with my large battery bank and solar would give me a very long time of independence and electricity. Plus my genset is very quiet.
What is my backup genny? A small tri-fuel from Northern Tool & Equipment that is loud but puts out 9 KW on gasoline, 8 KW on propane and 7 KW on natural gas…
When I moved into my house 12 years ago, I bought my first gennie to power my well pump during power outages. And later moved to the big one…
I am currently designing a large renewable energy setup on Lake [Deleted for OPSEC] and they are going with Solar (large array and batteries), Wind (10 KW Bergey) and Propane Generators (Onan) as backups. Regards, – Mel
JWR Replies: Parts of the United States have a home heating infrastructure that is geared more heavily toward home heating oil delivery rather than to propane delivery. In those regions, diesel generators might be better option, especially for those that live in farming or ranching country outside of city limits. There, large diesel tanks would not attract suspicion, and they are only lightly regulated. (At least in most western states.)
Virtually all diesel generators will run equally well on off-road (dyed) diesel, road-taxed diesel, biodiesel (including waste vegetable oil and freshly pressed oils), and home heating oil. The only significant difference between “home heating oil”, road taxed Diesel #2, and off-road diesel is the Federal standards for sulphur content and ash content. In fact, up until the recent introduction of Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) all three typically came from the same production runs at refineries. In essence, they are just marketed differently. And of course the portion that is destined for on-road vehicular use gets a hefty tax added–and it is left un-dyed. (The dye is intended to keep people from cheating on the road tax.)
I’m glad that you mentioned photovoltaics. There was recently some interesting analysis/commentary over at The Oil Drum from Robert Rapier: The Future is Solar. If SurvivalBlog readers want to get serious about making their own electricity with photovoltaics, contact Ready Made Resources. (Our first and most loyal advertiser.) They have the expertise, and great prices on panels, charge controllers, and inverters. They even offer pre-packaged systems up to 5.6 KW. Also BTW, lots of states now offer special incentives and rebates for people that install alternative energy systems.