The Survivalist’s Odds ‘n Sods

SurvivalBlog presents another edition of The Survivalist’s Odds ‘n Sods— a collection of news bits and pieces that are relevant to the modern survivalist and prepper from “JWR”. Our goal is to educate our readers, to help them to recognize emerging threats and to be better prepared for both disasters and negative societal trends. You can’t mitigate a risk if you haven’t first identified a risk. Today, we look at yet another prediction of a possible second civil war.

Rep. Gohmert Predicts Second Civil War

Linked over at the great news aggregation site: Rep. Louis Gohmert: Impeachment ‘Coup’ Will ‘Push This Country Toward Civil War’

Tax Collectors Ferreting Home Improvements

Company Allows Tax Collectors To Secretly Look For Home Improvements And Airbnb’s.  (A hat tip to H.L. for the link.) The article begins:

Trust a corporation to turn property tax collectors into property owner surveillance operatives.

Deckard Technologies (DT) promotes Smart City surveillance by creating a program that allows tax collectors to surveil resident’s properties anytime they want.

If you hate corporate doublespeak like I do, then you will love DT’s explanation of how their product works.

“Applying advanced data analytics, machine-learning and the talents of our data scientists, we identify, monitor and analyze real estate data and property activity for cities demanding answers with accuracy and precision.”

Let’s start with their “advanced analytics that identifies, monitors and analyzes real estate data and property activity.” In a nutshell they use Google Earth or other satellite imagery of peoples homes and compare them to their building plans.

After a tax collector has looked at someone’s property they can fine the owner for any number of reasons, which in turn adds to that city’s bottom line. Turning government tax collectors into a for-profit business venture is infuriating.

Goat Herd Saves Reagan Library From Fire

Goat herd credited with saving Reagan Presidential Library from wildfire in California

Probiotics to Protect Honey Bees?

Reader C.B. sent this: Using probiotics to protect honey bees against fatal disease

We’re Winning the Demographic War

James C. sent us the link to a vlog from Tim Pool: The US Is Becoming more Conservative Because Democrats DON’T Have Kids. JWR’s Comment: I believe that Tim Pool is right. We are now past the point of peak liberalism.

Utah: Record Cold of -43.6 ºF

File under “Global Warming”: Utah sees record cold of -43.6 ºF – ‘Perhaps the lowest October temperature ever recorded’ in continental U.S.

US Wind Energy Capacity: 100 Gigawatts

US wind energy capacity is now more than 100 gigawatts, according to new report

Police: Sorry About That

Police Owe Nothing To Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says. Here is a quote:

“An armed shoplifting suspect in Colorado barricaded himself in a stranger’s suburban Denver home in June 2015. In an attempt to force the suspect out, law enforcement blew up walls with explosives, fired tear gas and drove a military-style armored vehicle through the property’s doors.

After an hours-long siege, the home was left with shredded walls and blown-out windows. In some parts of the interior, the wood framing was exposed amid a mountain of debris.

A federal appeals court in Denver ruled this week that the homeowner, who had no connection to the suspect, isn’t entitled to be compensated, because the police were acting to preserve the safety of the public.

“Under no circumstances in this country should the government be able to blow up your house and render a family homeless,” Leo Lech, the house’s owner, told NPR. “This family was thrown out into the street without any recourse.”

Lawyers for Lech argued that the police’s destruction of his home was a violation of the Constitution’s Takings Clause, which says private property cannot be taken for public use without “just compensation.” But the problem with that argument, the appeals court ruled, is that courts have long held that police cannot be on the hook for property damage caused in the process of trying to make an arrest.”

Aerial Saw Is Boon to Line Trimming

Aerial Saw Is Boon to Line Trimming

Abolishing Honors Classes and Gifted Programs?

Activists Want To Abolish Your Kid’s Honors Classes, Cite ‘White Toxicity’ And ‘Supremacist’ Values Of High Achievement

You can send your news tips to JWR. (Either via e-mail of via our Contact form.) Thanks!


      1. I can read of all these 1000’s of cases of police doing bad things to us, just finally getting caught on the internet. I personally have witnessed police lie under oath in court. A female friend of mine’s Korean war vet grandfather was tasered on the side of the road and died 3 days later by police in Columbia Falls MT. The other man who answered you did a really good job of laying out all of the recent sickening cases of police and other government officials involved in the “just us” system doing the things I mentioned

      1. Example after example until you can’t see straight anymore if you care to search. Randy Weaver’s wife being shot in the face while holding a baby in her arms, his son being shot in the back. Waco…people burned alive….by fires the government started in all reality . Schaeffer Cox…FBI tried to murder him, he was railroaded and defrauded by federal prosecutors and the judge, now he languishes in prison. Dennis tuttle and wife in Houston TX, Gerald Goines lying multiple times under oath to get a warrant, having lots of little heroin baggies ready to plant to entrap the couple. Goines partners in crime including the Houston chief of police helping to protect these lying killers. Dallas cop Amber guyger rightfully being convicted of murder for shooting a man while sitting on his couch in his apartment. Arizona cop Philip Brailsford shooting a man in his underwear while he was begging for his life, the judge wouldn’t even allow the jury to see the body cam footage of this cop shooting the man, but you can watch it on You Tube. The head of the Oklahoma highway patrol telling people that the best way for women to not get raped by his cops is to not get pulled over. Pennsylvania Judge Mark Ciaverella selling boys into prison to put $2.2 million in his pocket. Massachussettes crime lab technician Anne Doukan falsifying drug reports of 34,000 people… stealing tens of thousands of hours of people’s lives by falslyin imprisoning them. Swat cops right here in the redoubt throwing flash grenades into a suspected meth lab (no meth was found)
        severely burning a 12 year old girl. We can go on and on and on. What I have listed is a very small fraction of what can be found in recent history. The police state and its minions are truly out of control . I am surprised you even question the statement.

    1. @ThoDan

      Clearly you didn’t read that article. The “suspect” barricaded himself in a strangers home. Who had no connection to the suspect.

      So you think that the innocent person should pick up the tab for a nut job?

      One can only hope this does not happen to you. Bet you would be singing a different tune then.

        1. @ThoDan

          I’m sorry for missing your point.

          However, you and I both know that the “suspect” is never, ever going to pay a thing to anyone.

          Criminal trash are just that. They find it easier to rape, rob, and pillage than to go get a job. A little time in prison is just a little on the job training. That’s where criminals go to hone their skills.

          In my opinion the LEOs went way over the line, by destroying this persons home. They should have just shut it down, electric, water, gas etc.. and waited the nut job out. No food or water he would have quit after a while. Or just set up a sniper and pick him off through a window. How many rounds could he have had? A couple of mags?

          The county or city should be held accountable for the damages, they hired those crazed cops, and supposedly trained them. Terminate the crazed officers that committed this farce, and vote out the leaders.

          If you have a few ants in your house, you don’t burn the entire house to the ground, in my world.

          Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

          1. We don´t know the full Picture, so i don´t know if your method was practicable and acceptable.
            The starvation method is time proven but if the Food and water are enough for a few days, how many cops should be Bound by this and the suspect didn´t act rational.

            Maybe the leader of the Police considered the Risk for his officers, room Clearing is a very high Risk operation and the public to high and using a Sniper not practicable or justified.

            How many rounds a couple of mags is a very Cold blooded attitude against the officers.

            A few years ago, a poacher in Austria killed a member of EKO COBRA (Austrias aquivalent of the GSG9) and another Police officer or Forester while resisting Arrest

        1. In the San Francisco Earthquake of 1903, the advance of the flames was stopped because city officials dynamited large tracts of homes.

          Whether you agree with it or not, the law in this country is that, under a broad set of conditions, a state is immune from being sued for any wrongs that are alleged. It is called “sovereign immunity.” The state can be sued only when it agrees to be, and it can limit the amount of its liability when it does. (Personally, I believe that all taxpayers should pay for the mistakes/incompetence/wrongdoing of its public minions.)

          Those who are of “a certain age” may recall that in the 1980s, also in Colorado, road crews would routinely doze roads and shove the debris off the side of the road and then allow it to roll down the slope. On a particular day, a bus filled with German tourists was struck with a massive boulder that came from a road-building project high above the road they were using. Multiple fatalities and serious injuries resulted.

          The case gained considerable national attention and was covered by “60 Minutes.” The total liability of the State of Colorado under law was $200,000.00. The criticism was extraordinary. Colorado said simply, “Sorry, but we’d have to force taxpayers to bear the burden if we didn’t have this law.” Of course, it was the taxpayers’ representatives who passed that law that limited the amount of exposure, and there was likely no hue and cry about the limitations when they were put in place.

          Colorado is hardly an unusual case when it comes to asserting sovereign immunity.

          1. The history of the San Francisco earthquake also involves a military-imposed curfew that led to over 100 citizens being killed by soldiers.

            After the fires were put out, a number of greedy bankers and real estate people declared large tracts of land theirs without due process. In my world, we call that theft. You may check this out in the book, A Paradise built in Hell.

            Carry on

    2. ThoDan,

      A couple points about your position:

      I have the impression each of us has a right to ‘resist arrest’.
      This is among our duties in alignment with Natural Law.

      The article claims somebody == the ‘first party’ == suspected somebody == the ‘second party’ == of an act.
      Yet, the acts of TheGovernmentAgents == the ‘third party’ == caused injuries to a fourth party far exceeding any potential re-imbursement to the first party for that ALLEGED second party’s ALLEGED act.

      The man-power and man-hours using specialized equipment designed to destroy everything in its path seems ‘a hammer in need of a nail to JustifyItsExistence©’.

      * Immunity from diseases is beneficial to society?
      * Immunity of TheGovernmentAgents from responsibility for acts by TheGovernmentAgents is beneficial to society?
      At least one of these seems concocted on a flimsy moral and ethical foundation.

      ThoDan, would you etch ‘STOP RESISTING®’ on LawEnforcementOfficials© bullets to eliminate an awkward step in the ComplianceProcedure™?

      1. Seriously.Does any one have any understanding of Large Marges comment?
        If you can help me figure it out please reply.
        Remember that “unkind words” are not allowed.

      2. a No, you don´t´ve this Right, you´ve only only the Right to resist illegitime Arrest – which means if you´ve reason to fear abuse of the arresting Person or if the state´d lost legitimacy. if not you´ve not.
        That a Police officer made an error judgement does not give you any Right to resist

        b the suspected broke into a fourth Party home, i don´t know what reason the Police officers ´d for their Actions afterward but upholding the law is not something that should be done with a pea counter mind set and after the burglary i consider the crime of shoplifting rather irrelevant vs a criminal was in somebody else home.

        Immunity for state agents for trying to do their Duty in a safe manner is necessary, abuse should be punished draconically, especially law enforcement = Police/state attorney/Judge and Military.

      1. He started out as a shoplifter – then apparently commited a home invasion (breaking and entering) when he broke into a strangers home. The fact that he was armed probably leads me to believe he was illegally possessing a firearm as well. Went from shoplifter to several felonies . . . . it’s not fair the homeowner suffered the loss, but it’s tough to argue that society would be better off with the “shoplifter” out on the streets. Meth?

        1. The article states that the “shoplifter” broke into a strangers house and then began shooting at police officers with a handgun from inside the house. Also, the homeowners 9 year old son (who was home alone) was able to escape from the house after the “shoplifter” broke in. Things could have been worse . . . so when the bad guy starts shooting at cops he is no longer just a “shoplifter” and the police would be negligent to walk away and leave him armed and in the strangers house. Just my opinion.

        2. So let me get this straight. An armed man shoplifts from a store. He invades a home and begins firing at police. The police respond with considerable force and damage the home. The police should have walked away because it all started with shoplifting???

          Okay, so this incident is unfortunate, but the federal judges were simply applying Colorado law. Why is it that many people who call themselves conservatives criticize activist judges who essentially make up the law as they go, but also criticize judges who merely apply the law as it is written?

          It seems to me that the problem here is with Coloradans. Coloradans were apparently satisfied with the law the judges applied, or they were at least silent in opposing their legal representatives who voted the policy into the law in the first place. Changes can be made at the ballot box.

          As in the case of drug lords and drug users, it is easier to beat up on drug dealers because there are too many drug users, and because too many drug users have fathers, mothers, brothers, and sisters who vote (“He’s a good boy. He was just experimenting with drugs.” Experimenting? No, Madam Curie conducted experiments. Sonny Boy was just USING drugs.) In the same vein, it is easier to criticize judges than to criticize voters who tolerate the laws passed by their legislators, laws these judges simply interpret.

          I wonder if, since this incident happened in 2015, a groundswell has occurred and numerous bills have been introduced in the Colorado legislature to reverse current Colorado law. Somehow, I think not.

  1. Gohmert explained the next day that what was going on in Congress was more like a Communist Revolution than a Civil War, as only one party was acting against the Constitution .

  2. Re. Conservatives Winning the Demographic War

    The Left doesn’t need to have kids. They use ours.

    My first question for so-called conservatives is, ‘Do you homeschool your children or send them to government indoctrination camps?’ Yep, their children are sent into the system cranking out 3.3 Million Bolsheviks every year. Yea, talk is cheap.

    “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever.” Vladimir Lenin

  3. I’m currently taking one of these required “equity” classes and this is no joke. I protested that “white supremacist” was a term appropriated from white society by the writers of our textbooks (who evidently didn’t bother to research and realize it doesn’t mean “white biased society” but is a renaming of Nazi philosophy). I will neither call myself that or permit that philosophy to be ascribed to my entire culture. The response was that I’m “unable to accept my inherent racism and white privilege”.

    After questioning this multiple times, I was told in the instructor’s office that “White voices have been heard enough. Our class is a safe space for people of color to speak.” The instructor had no reasoned argument for this stance beyond telling me repeatedly that I “need to do the hard work to accept the shame inherent in my white heritage and learn a real definition of equity.” I was told I can still receive an A for the course if I refrain from speaking out in class for the rest of the quarter.

    The next day this instructor asked a question about the reading. Most of the class hadn’t bothered to look at the chapter (they know they all have A’s if their papers accurately parrot the author’s viewpoint), so they just sat there. After about four minutes of silence while they played on their phones and the instructor said “Come on, anybody? Are we all tired today?” I offered a reply. This resulted in another meeting where I was told I was “resistant to the truth” and “afraid of silence”. No, I’m afraid I paid $600 to attend a class whose teacher is being played and doesn’t recognize it. He’s so busy trying to convince the white students of their white supremacist heritage that hes okay with the rest of his class copying and pasting their research papers, and highlighting sentences in the book ten minutes before class time to parrot when they get bored.

    Yes, I am afraid of silence. I’m afraid if we sit silent and allow others to teach our children that the founding fathers were racist, whites are all white supremacists, and all whites are inherently racist, while forcing students to parrot phrases like “no change is possible without violence” and “white supremacist society needs to be dismantled,” we will face another civil war.

    The ultimate puzzler for me was the book we are required to study, From Black Lives Matter to Black Liberation, which claims black leaders who excel in education or other fields reach positions of power and influence only because they “sell out” to become spokespeople for white supremacist values. The author’s examples of this include Dr. Martin Luther King and President Barack Obama. While I didn’t agree with much of President Obama’s political platform, he was a well-prepared candidate who honorably served this country. Dr. King’s legacy doesn’t need definition for anyone of any race from my generation. Smearing this legacy is an outrage.

    Read the required textbooks in “equity” classes for yourself and you will begin to understand the current political and social climate. These authors are so vitriolic they even turn on members of their own culture who worked hard to excel and speak for peace. Find out what your children in public school are forced to study, repeat in class, and write if they want the passing grade required to graduate.

    When the instructor told us that whites who opposed slavery, aided the Underground Railroad, or fought against the Confederacy in the Civil War were “tools of Abraham Lincoln,” one of my black classmates dropped the class. He’s looking for an alternative equity credit as, after reading them thoughtfully, his parents refuse to allow the books he was studying in their house. They are African Americans whose ancestors suffered under slavery. Their voices are strong, authentic and informed about history, race relations and social change. They feel what is being taught is historically inaccurate, espouses violence, mocks Christian values and scholastic excellence as a basis for good citizenship.

    I am not a white supremacist. I abhor everything they stand for. I understand that the treatment of blacks and Native Americans, among others, was shameful, and so do many other citizens of all colors. We want to work together for peaceful change, social equity, and greater understanding. You don’t get that by tearing down society, cheapening the value of a mandatory public school education – or calling for a race war.

    Pray for what is left of this country, and please, no matter what color or culture you are from, get your children out of public schools before they are indoctrinated in this violent philosophy intended to keep us fighting among ourselves while some financial and social powers behind the scenes laugh at the disunity and ineffectiveness this garbage produces. Working together, a few generations ago, the people of this country insisted the Vietnam war come to an end. Let’s show the last two generations how to pull together and stop the next one.

    1. May God bless you for sharing your story and speaking up IN CLASS. I have one grandchild that is college age, and one that will be college age in a couple of years, and many more that are much younger. I have a B.S., an M.S., and *almost* finished my PhD, but was cut short after years and years of research by a brain injury and then cancer. Glad to be alive. I focused on Science to avoid the “social sciences”. All that to say, the system is rotten to the core. I’ve told/begged my children for their children’s sake, SKIP COLLEGE, there’s plenty to learn and know by reading and doing. Anyone can make a great living without those degrees. For the Littles, I recommend a good Christian school or home school. The public school system is in a complete shambles. If enough people pull their children out of the public school system, it will be forced to re-evaluate and change, or die. This craziness about white privilege and inherent racism has to stop. It’s nothing more than social engineering. Makes steam come out of my ears. Thank you for sharing your story.

  4. Rep. Gohmert Predicts Second Civil War

    I posted his comment a couple of days ago in a reply. It’s about time that some politicians start to realize that some people in this country are sick and tired of the left telling us what we can and can’t say, how we should live, as a male we are toxic and on and on.

    We should already be removing individuals who don’t believe in the Constitution and our way of life in this country. They are poisoning our children and therefore our future with their communist ideas.

    Practice your skills, stockpile supplies, be ready to fight.

    God Bless

  5. Yes, more participation trophies for everyone!!!!
    Not content with simply lowering the bar in the name of inclusiveness, we are now going to also remove any reward or acknowledgement of achievement, so we don’t offend the non-achievers!!! Communism at its finest!!
    Good Lord in Heaven what has this world become???? I understand trying to bring the left-hand side of the bell curve up, but to do so by beating down the right-hand side is so obviously obtuse, to propose so shows an absolutely stellar lack of fore thought it should be immediately dismissed out of hand!

  6. Conservatives out producing children compared to leftists is not a new phenomenon. A writer for the Wall Street Journal gave it the name decades ago :“The Roe Effect”. Look it up. It explains why it’s always the pro abortionists that support giving felons the right to vote, illegal immigration, and so forth. It became discernible in the early 1990’s – about 18 years after Roe V. Wade.

  7. The destruction of that home to catch a shoplifter is unconscionable. I’ve been tempted but hesitant to write a piece on how I soured on the use of SWAT type teams in the late years of my law enforcement career, maybe I’ll write it now. On the occasion that one of our cops did damage to someone’s property (I once ran into a parked car while checking a building for example, oops!) my town always paid up. I thought that was just how it was done, until I read examples like this.

    1. Spotlight, I totally agree with you.

      I know a lot of law enforcement officers because I work with first responders. Cops are people. There are good ones and there are bad ones. Thankfully, it is my experience the good outnumber the bad by a very large margin.

      It is my personal belief, however, that SWAT teams tend to over react, which is clearly what happened in this case. You give a bunch of guys “special weapons” and train them to use flash bangs and shoot people, you shouldn’t really be surprised when they do what they are trained to do.

      SWAT officers are told they are “the best of the best” and this swells their heads [one crude comment deleted by the editor] and they get a little bit of an attitude and they don’t want to lose. I think we can also spread some blame to recent training regimens related to terrorism and mass shooting which trains them to be aggressive rather than barricading and waiting out a suspect.

      Frankly, the captain or other officer in charge should have never let things get so out of control. He or she should be disciplined and moved to another unit where their bad judgement will cause less damage.

      It should be police academy 101 stuff: You don’t chase a stolen car at high speeds a residential neighborhood when school just got out and you don’t blow up a house to catch a shoplifter. Especially since you probably know who he is and can pick him up later in a much safer and less confrontational manner.

      1. Well said, Pickled Prepper. One amendment…the cops should NEVER chase a suspect at speeds over the limit. There are too many unknowns at the next intersection. Modern tech enables later arrest. A man I know who was a LEO driving instructor admitted that many officers develop a “cowboy mentality” when a bad guy is “getting away” and get a charge out of the chase, no matter how many of us regular citizens are endangered.

        Carry on

  8. The same people who are trying to take away your guns are hiding in secret meetings behind armed guards. At what point will their armed guards become this country’s secret police?
    Please remove your children from government schools and stop you local and state governments from giving these government schools an open checkbook.

  9. In regards to “Tax Collectors Ferreting Home Improvements”, what else would you expect from a communist liberal from San Diego, Ca.? His name is Neil Senturia and he is a card carrying member..

    1. The article begins, Trust a corporation to turn property tax collectors into property owner surveillance operatives.

      This is one of many reason I mistrust big business to the same extent I mistrust big government.

      Carry on

  10. So with all those expensive windmills we finally have 100 gigawatts of power. It costs 10 times more than conventional power generation and it only provides power less than 10% of the day and when that 10% actually happens is both unpredictable and not when the extra power is needed. But whoop whoop! Someone made a fortune convincing the rubes that this was a good idea.

    1. Actually, for the sake of accuracy, NO, not ten times as much. Onshore wind power is now cost competitive. Some statistics:

      gas/oil combined cycle power plant – $1000/kW (2019)
      onshore wind – $1600/kW (2019)
      offshore wind – $6500/kW (2019)
      solar PV (fixed) – $1060/kW (utility), $1800/kW (2019)
      solar PV (tracking)- $1130/kW (utility) $2000/kW (2019)
      battery storage power – $2000/kW (2019)
      conventional hydropower – $2680/kW (2019)
      geothermal – $2800/kW (2019)
      coal (with SO2 and NOx controls)- $3500–3800/kW

      1. Thanks James for the statistics. I would like to maybe provide a little related perspective.–lets “just for fun” say your job is to manage a grid based power plant. Your job is to provide a dependable supply of power 24/7/365. Subject to all the regulation and responsibilities required to maintain this system. Your day starts out great! your turbines are singing, output is constant and well within operating ranges—then the solar plants call and say cut us in for 30%—-You ramp your output back,—the wind guys call and say “Hey, the wind is blowing”–Cut us in for 25%—You ramp your output back–Then the solar guys call and say hey, we’ve got some intermittent cloud activity, could you boost output–no, wait never mind—no go ahead—then the wind guy calls and says, hey, the wind is slowing down, would you– no– wait——Hey, the sun is going down— -. Point being, You don’t just flip a switch or operate a valve to fire these grid systems up, or shut them down for that matter. A fair amount of time is required not only to start and regulate these systems for the protection of the machinery and to prevent surges to the systems. I think in time, these systems will grow to better interface with technology, until then, we appreciate the dependability of a well maintained grid system—but then—I don’t live in california —–Just a perspective from the people that build and run these systems

      2. There is a slight of hand that makes solar and wind energy look cheaper than it is. About a 50% subsidy at the federal level to the company building it. With additional subsidies by state and local governments on down the line. And then of course the power company is forced to purchase the power from these installations and blend in the cost with their cheaper power generation.

        In fact wind power and solar power (PV) is so inefficient that they can never generate as much energy as it took to mine the materials, manufacture the equipment (wind generator or PV panels) install it and maintain it. Without the subsidies this would be patently obvious but with the may known and hidden subsidies it is simply too confusing to ever get any honest data.

        But all of this false data is just the beginning of the scheme. Since you cannot depend on wind or solar (i.e. the wind might blow or not, the sun might shine or not) in order to keep the electrical grid from collapsing the utilities are forced to keep a gas fired (usually a gas fired) generation facility running even if it is simply off line waiting for when it might be needed. This extra expense too is never counted by those who would disinform you of the true cost of wind or solar.

        Ask yourself a couple of simple questions: If solar or wind power were viable why would it have to be mandated? If solar or wind power were affordable/competitive why would they go to great lengths to hide subsidies and cost transferring?

          1. I sincerely wish it were true. China has the largest PV manufacturing plant in the world. They built a coal fired electric generating station right beside it to provide power. Why, if PV was sooo cheap and effective. The simple truth is that it takes more energy to manufacture and install PV than it will ever produce. The subsidies aren’t going away they are just being hidden better and not talked about. A typical large wind generator assembly costs between $1-$2 million dollars. In it’s useful lifetime it will generate less than 1/4 that value in electricity. The facts for PV are similar.
            Again I will ask if it is so efficient and cheap why is it mandated?

          2. RE: “The simple truth is that it takes more energy to manufacture and install PV than it will ever produce”. That is NOT true. 230 to 235 Watt monorystaline PV panels are now down below 90 cents per watt! That means recouping one’s investment with the power produced is less than 8 years, even in a state with inexpensive grid power, such as Idaho, and less than 5 years in a high-cost state like California. See: These panels last more than 30 years. (The first set of six 200-watt panels that I bought in 1992 at nearly $3 per watt are still going strong.) See: So you are claiming that every PV panel being produced both in the U.S. and China is being sold at a loss? Nay, the economies of scale have simply made PV panel very inexpensive.

          3. My statement: “The simple truth is that it takes more energy to manufacture and install PV than it will ever produce”.

            My proof/rebuttal:
            A 120 panel picked at random:
            Cost of panel: $186.00
            Wattage of panel: 120 watts
            Avg Insolation (Picked Spokane as the closest location to you) 4.48 hours.
            Avg kWh generated per day: 0.48384 (120 watts X 4.48 hours * .9 (efficiency factor since no panel produces 100% of it’s rating)
            kWh per year: 176.6016 kWh
            kWh over 30 year (life expectancy of panel): 2649.024 kWh. (This figure averages in the 3% per year decrease in electricity production by PV panels as they deteriorate)
            The actual cost of coal or hydro in the pacific NW: $0.02/kWh. (that is the cost at the plant not the cost of the infrastructure to get it to your house.)
            The value of the solar panels 30 years of power: $52.98

            Not even close. I didn’t even include the cost of installing the panel or the support electronics to monitor and control it. I didn’t include the cost of battery’s to insure 24 hour power, or the wiring to your home, etc.

          4. For you math, you chose a 120 watt panel with a cost of around $1.20 per watt. But typical residential 230 Watt panels are available as low as 81 cents per watt.

            And then for calculating the cost of grid power, you cited $.02 per KWH. That is best-case PRODUCER cost for hydro power, not CONSUMER cost and does not factor in the cost of dam construction. The CONSUMER cost is between 11 cents and 24 cent per KWH. So what you’ve made is a skewed “apples and oranges” comparison. At a conservative average consumer cost of 14 cents per KWH, even with the over-priced panel that you chose for your example, the value of the solar panel-produced 30 years of power is $370.86, not $52.98. So, for consumers, PV panels ARE now cost-effective, with a good return on investment.

            And BTW, the PRODUCER cost of PV panels, when bought in bulk by utilities is under 50 cents per watt. So, even absent subsidies, a PV panel will pay for itself at the utility installation scale, and be competitive against other power production sources.

          5. “you chose a 120 watt panel with a cost of around $1.20 per watt. But typical residential 230 Watt panels are available as low as 81 cents per watt.”
            I believe you are citing post subsidy prices for those panels. Remember my point originally was that the subsidies are the only reason that solar (or wind) “appear” to be cost effective.

            “you cited $.02 per KWH.”
            Yes! That is what BPA produces electricity for at their source. Now BPA tries to hide this fact AND they blend in the much higher cost of wind and solar to come up with a different number but I did in fact work for BPA and before the craziness to convince us all to pay the extra costs of wind and solar the cost at the dam generation site was $0.02/kWh.

            “That is best-case PRODUCER cost for hydro power, not CONSUMER cost”
            Absolute correct. But we were talking about solar and wind effectiveness/cost and that can only be measured accurately at the site and should not include transmission costs, taxes, mandates, and profit. That is why I compare BPA power cost at the dam generation facility and solar at the output of the PV panel.

            “The CONSUMER cost is between 11 cents and 24 cent per KWH.”
            Yes, and why??? Because of the addition to the overall cost due to solar and wind being mandated. Just a point of information my utility charges me $0.06 for my electricity. BUT over the last 10 years has added on “facility” charges which are essentially the costs they incur because they MUST accept the higher cost power from wind and solar.

            “the value of the solar panel-produced 30 years of power is $370.86, not $52.98.”
            Yes if you believe that you get 100 watts from a 100 watt rated panel AND that it does not decrease over it’s 30 year lifetime. But you will never get 100 watts from a 100 watt rated panel.

            “the PRODUCER cost of PV panels, when bought in bulk by utilities is under 50 cents per watt. So, even absent subsidies”
            That figure is absent the admitted and observable subsidies. The subsidies are there, your taxes paid for them and they are hiding them from you for a reason.
            “a PV panel will pay for itself at the utility installation scale, and be competitive against other power production sources.”

            Actually the numbers are much worse at the utility installation than they are for a do it yourself installation. The single largest expense that they must incur is labor at an astronomical rate. Your home DIY installation is cheap. Installation, maintenance and upkeep of commercial wind and solar is extremely expensive.

            One last point: I didn’t include the infrastructure that goes along with a wind or solar generation facility which is quite a bit more expensive than hydro or coal. Solar power to the consumer costs about $0.54/kWh (varies by location, can be as cheap as $0.36). Most existing hydro, coal and gas averages about $0.08 BEFORE the additional charges that are used to subsidize alternative energy.

      3. OneGuy, you seem to have done a lot of research. Please tell us the data on government subsidies of the gas and coal-fired power plants. And, subsidies in the form of eminent domain land seizures to run power lines into populated areas. There are many hidden costs in every form of electricity generation. I prefer all comparisons be apples to apples.

        Carry on

        1. The difference is that the “subsidies” given to solar and wind are actual subsidies. The other things you cite are available not only to all businesses but to all individuals too. Your argument sounds a lot like Obama’s statement to American businesses “you didn’t build that” because they use public infrastructure.
          Farmers get advantages and subsidies in our market some of it with good intentions and some of it protectionism. The list of carve outs and tax advantages to businesses and organizations is very long. Personally I am opposed to any subsidies or special advantages and I don’t think our federal government should even be involved in about half of what they do. But that is what politicians do; give something to get something (sounds like a quid pro quo).

          When I installed a heat pump in my house a few years back the state and electric utility paid about 40% of it. Since the house was a rental I wrote off the rest against my taxes. Those “subsidies” are available to anyone who wants to use them. Should government be spending our tax dollars in this way? No!

  11. on “We’re Winning the Demographic War”

    They are the ones in total control of education, entertainment, “news” media, and child “protective” services. They don’t have to win the demographic war.

  12. Thanks to Jim for posting a comparison chart of electric power production facility costs. Since the figures he provides are per KW, not per KWHr, I assume these are costs of facilities, not the cost of the electricity they produce. The cost of the power is the cost of the capacity, plus operating and maintenance cost, plus fuel cost, plus decommissioning cost, divided by the power actually produced over the plant’s lifetime.

    Wind and solar have zero fuel cost. Solar has no moving parts, thus low maintenance cost. Both of these produce no pollution in operation, so they impose no hidden costs on the surroundings . ALL types of power generation produce various types of pollution during the mining and manufacturing of the equipment, and most produce lots in their fuel cycles. In addition to liability insurance costs that would absolutely prohibit its development if the Government did not shied it, the nuclear industry has decommissioning costs that are literally incalculable because satisfactory waste disposal has yet to be developed. The whole cat-fight about energy sources would disappear if government (that is, forced) subsidies were discontinued, Nukes would vanish because of liability and cost of fuel if it were not subsidized by the weapons industry. Costs of coal-power would rise of the public stopped paying for the haul roads and mine reclamation. Oil and gas cost would rise if the US Navy stopped protecting tankers from piracy and the government stopped allowing private companies to seize private property for pipelines.

    Yes, wind and sun are varying sources, but continental grids provide a lot of leveling, and batteries keep getting better. I would like to see the free market sort it out.

    We have been off the grid for thirty years, so we ain’t paying your bills, but we still have to breathe the cr*p.

    1. Pocahontas Patriot, you put your finger on what I was alluding to in my query to One Guy. We taxpayers have paid for power generation and delivery over many decades in many ways that have been hidden from us.

      Carry on

  13. Aunt Mary,

    Can you tell us what type of educational program you are enrolled in? HS or College? Major/Minor?

    I have never heard of ‘required “equity” classes’, and I certainly won’t be paying for my kids or grandkids to attend one.

    1. Hi Freedom Loving Texan

      It’s a WA state university, Education and Community Engagement minor. Oddly enough, I enrolled in it because the excellent community college I transferred from had a very diverse student body and I was excited to learn more about inclusive classroom strategies.
      Unfortunately the Utopian description of the class and the reality don’t match. I would suggest since most colleges have a diversity requirement, plan ahead and email a request for the course syllabus, which tells you what textbooks the teacher is using and the course philosophy. You can bet I’ll be doing this in the future. I’m out $600 and have wasted eleven weeks, and will still need a different diversity credit because this class was so inadequate.

      If anyone is interested, there is an excellent book “Educating Everybody’s Children: Diverse Teaching Strategies for Diverse Learners” edited by Robert W. Cole, which gives concrete, workable suggestions for bringing different cultural strengths into the classroom. For example, they suggest the teacher discuss different ways math skills are used in different cultures currently and historically, and where in the word math proofs and discoveries originated. Another suggestion is helping English as a Second Language learners catch up by having peers help, and at the same time introducing those peers to a few words in the child’s own language. Maybe one child is good at reading, while another has a great knowledge of geography; children are encouraged to find their strengths and share them while benefiting from others’ knowledge, reinforcing that we’re all capable learners who can and should strive for excellence.

      Thanks so much for asking. This has been bothering me a great deal and it helps to know that I’m not alone in wanting equal education for all children – and adults.

  14. On Louie Gomert and the posibility of a coming civil war:

    That’s why the desperate push for forced civilian (citizen) disarmament. Trump won’t be the cause, the Democrats aren’t intelligent enough to know when they’ve pushed us too far. Frankly I don’t think they care that they are pushing we the people too far. Creating enemies where none should exist is always a bad move. Worse is underestimating your enemies. I don’t underestimate the Democrats brutality, but I believe they have underestimated the power, the strength of our resistance to their brutality.

    On the racist propaganda of the left:

    This ties in with the coming civil war. First the demonization of white men, then the demonization of white women and white children, then will come the forced segregation of whites from the rest of society. It won’t stop there. Then will come the segregation of the old and infirm. Finally will come the concentration camps and the ovens.

    The Democrat party has always been the party of racism and bigotry. Now that they have gone full National Socialist, they need a scapegoat for all the problems in this country. The Nazis blamed the Jews and “Jewish capitalism” for all that was wrong in 1920’s Germany. Now the Democrats blame white men and “white capitalism” for all the ills in 21st century America, We call them communists, but they act just like the Nazis in Germany. Marx was a German, Marx was a German nationalist, the basis of National Socialism has always been Marxist. Even Hitler used the term “democratic socialism” in his promotion of National Socialism. Their goals are globalist, but their actions are National Socialist.

    I’m not a big fan of Lincoln or of the early Republican party. Their actions against the southern states before, during, and after the war were completely uncalled for. But the bigoted language and actions of the left in 2019 America make the actions of Lincoln and company seem mild by comparison. Lincoln started a war over taxation, not slavery, that cost some 850,000 plus American lives, civilian and military. The war the left is planning against the American people will kill tens of millions of Americans, mostly civilians. Slavery is always wrong, It was wrong in early America and it is just as wrong today. The party of slavery, however, has not changed. It was the Democrats in the past, it’s the Democrats today.

    For what it’s worth, when I refer the Democrats and Republicans, i’m referring to the political parties, not necessarily those who vote for those two parties. Your own conscience will tell you whether I’m referring to you or not.

    Change of topic. Property taxes and government goons.

    Property taxes have always been immoral. That is government staking an ownership claim on all property. The purpose of permitting is not to ensure code compliance, it’s to arbitrarily set an increased value on the property to increase the taxes owed. Instead of property taxes, set a fee for services rendered. How many actual services provided by your county or local government do you actually use? Most services provided could be provided much cheaper if provided by the free market. The rest could be part of your homeowners insurance. The insurance companies would have strong financial incentives to hold down crime and provide efficient and effective fire fighting and EMS services. All of that at a cost not tied to the value of your property.

    The SWAT team actions in Colorado were an obscenity. There was absolutely ZERO need to destroy that house. They did it because they wanted to, and they knew they would not be held liable for their wanton destruction. If the policing had been provided by his homeowners insurance company, I guarantee the house would not have been destroyed.

    On the wind and solar power and overall costs:

    I’m with Pocahontas Patriot. Get the government out of both power generation and automobile production, get rid of the subsidies and incentives, then let the free market sort it all out. The free market works every time it’s tried.

    1. The “socialist ” of the NSDAP was most likely murdered with Ernst Röhm during the Röhm Putsch

      The NS Propaganda called Democracy a variant of Plutocracy, mybe the american way of plutocracy including the mob

      Only taxes on the poor are Moral?

      1. No taxes are moral. Taxes are a claim of ownership. Property taxes are immoral, income taxes are immoral, wealth taxes are immoral. There will always be some government that has to be paid for. Sales taxes are a more just tax. Sales taxes are basically a tariff on trade or commerce. Sales taxes are a tax that can be controlled by the individual and that is what makes them a more just taxing scheme. Most functions of government could and should be handled by free market means. Those functions that can’t should be paid for with a sales tax only. Government should be severely limited on the maximum sales tax that can be charged, then forced to live within it’s means. Deny government at all levels the authority to borrow money, quit making promises they can’t keep.

        1. Taxing the poor is just!

          Forcing a goverment to live withhin it´s means, easy write an article in the constitution that going into debt is only allowed under extraordinary circumstances/emergencies like war.

          I don´t think free market law enforcement, public safety, public Transport and defense is a good idea and that free market Health care is superior to public isn´t proven till now.

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