Jim’s Quote of the Day

"To be ignorant and simple now–not to be able to meet the enemies on their own ground–would be to throw down our weapons, and to betray our uneducated brethren who have, under God, no defense but us against the intellectual attacks of the heathen. Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy needs to be answered." – C.S. Lewis

Note from JWR

Today, I’m catching up on replying to some older e-mails that included multiple questions. Because of time constraints, those are the ones that end up at the bottom of my “to do” list.  So if you’d like to see your questions answered  promptly, please limit your question e-mails to a single subject. Thanks!

“Doug Carlton” on Rifle Slings

Jim,
You’re correct in that you should use whatever sling works for you, and if you’re still using that old M60 sling set-up that you used to use “back in the day” works for you, great. Sling technology and technique has come along way since then though. Single point, two point, and triple point slings are now available that make it generally better to use the sling than the archaic idea of “no slings on patrol”. There’s too many out there to bother naming, and all have strengths and weaknesses, but when sling shopping, look for a sling that does what you want it to do. For you, the M60 sling does what you want, that’s fine. I prefer a sling that keeps the gun in a specific position and orientation for transitions to my sidearm, and for other things like operating equipment, driving, opening doors and admin use, but still keeps the rifle exactly in
the same spot, with the same side against my body, and does so comfortably. Of the slings out there, most are a variation on the theme. Single point slings attach the rifle to you at one point on the weapon. This arrangement can be anything from a loop, to a snap link [rock climbing carabiner] running through the stock of your M4 and attached to your body armor, to far more complicated stuff.
Two point slings, like the M60 you use, or the Israeli, and most other “tactical slings” are like this. I use the Israeli sling and it’s a good, effective and simple device. The sling is a very long strap. The strap is adjustable, and there’s also a Fastex-type buckle that you use to shorten it a specific amount. The slack when the buckle is connected is equipped with velcro and stays secure and out of the way. This way the rifle can be slung over your head and shoulder, more comfortably and more securely, but the
simple release of the Fastex buckle will allow you the extra length needed to use the rifle with no problems. It has both hooks and para cord for attachment. There is a compartment that you can keep earplugs in. The Israeli sling does everything fairly well, and some things quite well, though it’s slower to employ in some cases. As an all-purpose, general use sling for doing other things while remaining armed and able to fight quickly, it’s one of the best I’ve run across. Not what I prefer to use if I know I’m going to fight, but it’s what I prefer to use if I just need to have a long gun with me.
Other tactical slings get more complicated in use, but are better for fighting than the Israeli sling. These slings seem to most novices and many old-timers;) as contraptions that you don’t need, but properly employed are quite useful. The British SA-80 sling is slightly over-complicated for what it does, but it and most other tactical slings work all abut the same. Some are just simpler to figure out. Some guns, like the older HK roller-delayed based line, actually have a third mounting point for special sling. If you have a weapon so equipped, then full advantage should be taken.
Which sling is the right one for you to use is a matter of what you want that sling to do for you. The Israeli sling is pretty hard to beat for most general use though. I’d take it over most of the “tactical” slings for everyday use in 95% of the situations you’d encounter in real life. If you have to lug a rifle around with you and still live your life, it’s just the ticket. Which is why the Israelis designed it that way. – “Doug Carlton”

JWR: Adds:  Some of you that have read my novel “Patriots” may recognize “Doug Carlton.” Like a lot of the other characters in the book, “Doug” was based on a real-life friend of mine, that I’ve known since college.  We went through ROTC together. “Doug” later went on to be a distinguished U.S. Army helicopter pilot.  He now works in the transportation industry on the East Coast.

Senator Frist Urges Full $7.1 Billion Funding to Fight the Asian Avian Flu

I found the following at the CongressDaily (http://nationaljournal.com/about/congressdaily/) web site. Excerpting briefly from their story: “President Bush’s request for more than $7 billion in emergency funding to prepare for a possible outbreak of avian flu “had better pass” before Congress adjourns for the year, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist [who is also a medical doctor] , R-Tenn., declared Sunday.  “We need to be prepared,” Frist said during an appearance on “Fox News Sunday,” adding, “I’m very hopeful that we will invest $7.1 billion to look at prevention, to look at care, to look at treatment.” The measure might be attached to the fiscal 2006 Defense appropriations bill, although some House conservatives are insisting that the $7 billion be offset.

Fears of a pandemic have increased as a virus infecting millions of birds has spread throughout Asia and parts of Europe. The so-called bird flu has not yet appeared in the United States or spread from person to person abroad, but officials worry that it could mutate and become highly contagious because humans have no immunity to it. Frist said the spending request is only a fraction of an estimated $675 billion hit that the U.S. economy could take, with possibly two million dying from bird flu and up to 90 million sickened. “I don’t think it’s going to happen right now or tomorrow,” Frist said. “But if it does happen, it’s devastating.”

Letter Re: Questions on Sambucol, EMP-Proof Vehicles, Food Storage, Real Estate, Barter Guns and Ammo, and SAR-8 Rifles

Mr. Rawles:

I have some questions for you: [JWR’s replies are in line, in bold]

1.) Regarding the Sambucol products.
–Does this product have any preventative component or do you only take it when symptoms occur?

Take it only immediately after symptoms occur.

–How many 7.8 oz. bottles do you recommend for storage for a family or families in a homestead?

We are a family of five, and I bought six bottles.  But we plan to be living in isolated self-quaratine, here in the boonies.  And BTW, half of what I bought was intended charity.  For those of you that are not self-employed or otherwise don’t anticipate being able to live in self-quarantine, you should probably buy a larger quantity.

2.) Regarding discussion on G.O.O.D. vehicles.
–I reviewed all the articles and posts and it appears that the consensus is that pre-1993 vehicles offer the best EMP protection. Do you have any new info or insights on this subject.

Pre-1993 is a fairly safe bet for diesel engines, but not for gasoline engines, which started “going electronic” in the late 1970s. Unless you are quite familiar with car engines, you really need to consult with a mechanic from a dealership for the particular manufacturer of your vehicle to be certain that any particular make/model/year has a traditional rotor/points/condenser ignition system and that it has traditional carburetion rather than electronically-controlled fuel injection.  BTW, many gas-powered engines from the 1980s and 1990s can be retrofitted with a traditional ignition system. Again, you need to ask someone with expertise to ascertain the details. Alternatively, you can buy one or more spare identical electronic ignition system CPUs from wrecking yards to store in metal cans. (Faraday protection.)

3.) Regarding storage foods
–What percentage of MRE’s and freeze-drieds do you recommend?

That depends on your circumstances.  For someone that lives at their intended retreat year-round, as much as 90% of their storage food should be in bulk containers such as five gallon pails.  But for someone that plans to “Get out of Dodge” (G.O.O.D.) at the 11th hour, perhaps as much as 25% of your food should be divided equally between freeze dried and MREs. (And of course nearly all of the bulk storage food should be pre-positioned at your retreat.)  See my Links page for recommended vendors.  If you buy your storage food from any of them, please mention where you got the recommendation. (Many of them are SurvivalBlog advertisers–or they should be.)

–Are there any other types of storage foods that you would suggest?

Don’t overlook stocking up larger quantities of the wet-packed canned foods that you use on a regular basis.   Yes, they are fairly bulky, heavy, and need to be rotated frequently, but “per dollar” they are a fairly efficient use of household funds for storage foods.

Also consider the new retort packaged foods (such as stews. These are quite convenient. There are also a surprising number of canned foods that have switched to pull top lids in the last couple of years. OBTW, mark the date of purchase with a Sharpie pen on ALL storage foods, so that you can rotate them consistently.

4.) Regarding the Housing Bubble and Real Estate
–If the bubble is to burst in 2006 wouldn’t that lead to much lower real estate prices? Therefore would it be prudent to wait for this before purchasing land for a homestead/retreat? Or should we not concern ourselves with what the market is doing?

I am of the opinion that the biggest declines in house prices will occur in urban and suburban real estate.  Productive farm land will probably only go down slightly, since it has been depressed (in terms of its real value) for decades. And houses on 5 to 40 acres in choice retreat locales might actually go up in price, as yuppies flee the cities in opening stages of the next depression.  IMHO, you can’t go wrong buying a house on a 40 acre parcel with productive soil and spring-fed water and that is situated in a lightly populated region well removed from the major population centers.  The downside risk is minimal.

5.) Regarding barter guns and ammo
–In a post TEOTWAWKI barter economy which do you think will be more in demand-shotguns or pistols? Could you please give us your reasoning on this?

Both will be in demand, but it primarily will be pistols will be sought by untrained suburban know-nothings.  (Shotguns are much more effective!)  So if you are buying for barter, buy large caliber (.40 S&W or .45 ACP) used Glocks, SIGs, or Berettas, and/or American-made (preferably Colt) stainless steel auto pistols. If you are buying with the intent of being able to arm your neighbors for mutual defense, then buy used Remington or Mossberg 12 gauge riotguns.

–You have highly recommended the .308 Winchester caliber for the MBR but what exact specifications [of ammunition] (manufacturer, grain, FMJ/JHP) do you suggest we purchase?

For self defense, I recommend that you buy 80% full metal jacket (“ball”) ammunition, 10% match, and 10% pointed soft point soft nose. For barter, buy mainly hollow point common caliber pistol ammunition and .22 Long Rifle rimfire ammunition–again, hollow points.

6.) I have been considering purchasing a Springfield SAR-8 rifle chambered in .308.
A.) What is your opinion on the SAR-8 as a MBR?

The SAR-8 (Springfield Armory’s clone of the HK91) are well made (much better than the CETME).  Their only serious shortcoming is that they lack a flash hider. Be advised that if you replace the original pseudo flash hider with a real one, that it must be a U.S.-made part, since the 1989 ban (still in effect) requires that the rifle retain 10 U.S. made parts.

If you can afford it, buy an original HK91 rather than a SAR-8.  Magazines (they both use the same type) are currently cheap and plentiful, so buy a pile of them.  (Something like 50+ of the West German alloy magazines. They can be had for as little as $2.50 each from mail order firms like Cheaper Than Dirt.)

B.) The iron sights on this weapon do not have tritium; do you suggest I have it installed? Or have a scope mounted?

I’d recommend that you get  a tritium-lit scope (preferably a Trijicon brand) on a quick-detachable claw mount. Tritium iron sights are available for the HK91/SAR-8 but they would be redundant to a tritium-lit scope. If you decide to NOT get a scope, then it is worth the money to buy tritium element sights.

3.) What type and brand of scopes do you like? 

For purely long range work, most of the Leupold or Nikon mil-dot scopes are excellent.  For the best “all around” scope, I prefer the Trijicon AGOGs.

7.) I am planning on purchasing a quantity of gold; do you recommend bullion or gold coins? – Dr Sidney Zweibel, Columbia P&S

IMO, bullion gold (bars) are only for the super-wealthy.  Because it requires assay before resale, I don’t consider bullion gold appropriate for most survivalists. As previously stated in my SurvivalBlog writings and in my novel Patriots, gold is too compact a form of wealth for barter purposes.  Buy one $1,000 face value bag of 90% (pre-1965) silver dimes or quarters for each family member for barter before you move on to buying gold. Then buy your gold in the form of 1 ounce Krugerrands or Canadian Maple Leafs, since those have the lowest premium (dealer’s profit, per coin.) Avoid the Chinese Pandas.  There are far too many of those being counterfeited! For our readers overseas, buy whatever coins are the most recognizable locally. (e.g. Australian Koalas, British Sovereigns, Swiss Vrenellis, et cetera.)

Letter Re: Guidelines on Storage of Various Supplies?

Sir:
I would like to know:  Some things should be stored at “0” degrees. Other things at “70” degrees. Some can tolerate light, some requires dark.(Some medicines, batteries, et cetera.) Anything you could mention would help on this subject. THANKS, VERY MUCH. Survival Minded, – Brother Slim

JWR Replies:  I see a FAQ coming!  I’m sure that a number of SurvivalBlog readers will have a lot to add to this (and please do!), but here is a list of guidelines, for starters:

1.) Gardening seed should be stored in the dark, above freezing, in low humidity. The refrigerator is ideal. Seal them in Mason jars or in Ziplock bags to protect them from humidity.

2.) Most herbs, batteries, liquid medicines, liquid/caplet vitamins, and chemical light sticks are also best stored in the refrigerator.

3.) Most medicines and vitamin powders and tablets are best stored in the freezer.

4.) Most storage foods should stored in the dark, in the coolest (but not ever below freezing) part of your house.

5.) Ammunition should be stored in sealed ammo cans. Tupperware will also suffice. It stores longest below 80 degrees, so don’t store it in an attic. Ammo should never be stored in the same room as oil, solvents, bore cleaner, or paints, since the fumes from these will deaden primers.  For the same reason, if you keep any guns loaded, that ammunition should used up in target practice once every 18 months (or less), and replaced with fresh ammunition that has been stored in sealed ammo cans.

6.) Liquid fuels of all descriptions should be stored in sealed containers, in a cool, dark place, the appropriate stabilizer added. Heat, moisture, and the opportunity to evaporate are what will shorten the storage life for liquid fuels.

7.) Matches should be stored in tupperware-type containers to protect them from humidity.  Resist the urge to store them in Mason type jars.  (Glass makes nasty shrapnel–and it would indeed be just that if the matches were ever ignited by heat or friction and there was no place for the resulting gasses to escape.)

8.) Paper products and ladies’ supplies should be protected from humidity, but heat is generally not a problem. Keep them out of direct light.

9.) Do not store any flammables beyond your immediate needs in your house, barn. or garage. You should construct a dedicated “paint shed.”  OBTW, for the foregoing, I don’t class standard ammunition a “flammable.”  Keep it close at hand, but hidden from burglars.

Letter Re: Copper Pennies for Barter?

I was checking the prices on base metals today and saw that copper is at $2.10 a pound. Pre-1982 pennies are 95% copper, and 153 of them make a pound of copper. Any thoughts to using pre-1982 U.S. pennies as barter in addition to silver? If nothing else, I’ve been saving my pre-82 pennies for a few years. I have a few pounds worth. It’s not something I’m ‘stockpiling’ by any means, but every time I check my change I look for the 1981 (and earlier) pennies as well as the pre-65 dimes and quarters. It’s also a slight moral booster, considering it’s few and far between that I find a pre-1965 anything. OBTW: Silver took a nose dive the past few days, so if any readers missed the boat this would be the time to climb on board. – Prometheus.

JWR Replies: You are correct that pre-1982 pennies are 95% copper.  (The later ones are zinc tokens that are just flashed with copper.) It has been said that “silver is the poor man’s gold.”  So I suppose that by the same token (pardon the pun) copper is the starving man’s silver. However, per dollar value, pennies are extremely heavy and bulky. I guess that it wouldn’t hurt to have a few rolls of pre-1982 pennies on hand to make “change” for junk silver barter transactions.  But from a practical standpoint, at current copper prices it is hardly worth your time to sort out the pre-1982 pennies. At this juncture I should mention that there is apocryphal story about a church minister living in Germany in the 1920s–during the Weimar Republic mass inflation. During the mass inflation, he saved all of the copper pfennings from the donation plate.He eventually filled a disused bathtub with them.  When the D-Mark paper money was finally totally repudiated (used for kindling), he and his family were able to eat and had extra for charity, due to his foresight. I think that it would take similarly traumatic times before pre-1982 pennies ever become an “investment.”

Note from JWR

If you are on friendly terms with any dealers in preparedness/self-sufficiency products, or realtors in retreat country, please encourage them to advertise on SurvivalBlog.

Letter Re: Re-Engining an Older Ford Pickup with a Diesel Engine?

Jim,
One of my long term goals is to own a diesel pickup. A mechanic friend of mine down in California, a true Ford guy all the way thru would say that the time tested and proven International engine used in the the Ford pickups was the most reliable–with the Cummins running a very close second (It should be noted Ford owns a controlling interest in Cummins and Ford does/has used Cummins in several of their industrial projects, including farm equipment and heavy duty trucks). I don’t know all the details but I will say that from my own experience the Ford/International trucks, namely the 6.9 liter of the 1980s was a long-lived engine. I once was at a Ford dealership in southern California when a fellow brought in a 1986 F-250 non-turbo 6.9 liter diesel to ‘trade-up’ to a more modern pickup (this was in 2000). His truck, which he claimed had never gone thru a rebuild, had just had regular maintenance had 688,000 miles on the odometer!
The guys at the dealership were astonished and even mentioned contacting the corporate headquarters to use his story as an example of Ford reliability. I myself own a 1973 1 ton GMC with the very reliable 454 gas engine and I have given serious thought to pulling that out and sticking in a 6.5 Diesel. I would more than likely go from my present 9-10 MPG to 15-17 (even with a 3 speed turbo 400 tranny behind it.) If there are any folks out their giving this consideration (those of us with older pickups) they may want to consider this as an option and if they are running an older 3 speed like a turbo 400 or Ford C-6 and they want better highway performance, look into ‘Gear Vendors’ over/under drive. See: http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html. This, I’m told, will turn that old tranny into a real highway cruiser. Story has it that the guys on the hot rod circuit and at the drag strip swear by ‘Gear Vendors’, they are rated at handling 1,200+ horse power! Hope this helps someone that is hanging onto there old pickup but wants the reliability and performance of the newer rigs. Thanks, – Jason in North Idaho

JWR Replies: If your 1973 Ford still has a rust-free body, then it may be worth doing. To achieve full reliability on a truck that old will probably require a lot more work than just re-engining. Read: extensive and expensive.  (For instance: a new wiring harness, rebuilding both differentials, a new drive shaft or at least new U-joints, re-arching the springs, considerable other suspension work, possible steering work, new master cylinder, new radiator, et cetera.) When all is said and done, you might be better off finding another 1 ton 4WD that was built in the the early to mid-1990s with a dead engine as your starting point. Rebuilding a 10 to 15 year old vehicle is a much less daunting task that rebuilding one that is 32 years old! Once a rig is more than 25 years old, it generally requires a true “zero time” rebuild.  Again, that is extensive and expensive. In the interim, you can use your running 1973 until the project on the “new” pickup is done, and then sell it off. Just my $0.10 worth–“your mileage may vary.” (YMMV.)

Letter Re: Rourke Replies to Skousen Comment Re: Rourke on Real Estate Development Proposal Ideas

Jim:

I am a fan of Mr. Skousen and have the latest edition of his book, or perhaps I should call it a treatise, The Secure Home. I agree with the problems of government among the independently minded (too many cooks in the kitchen, need a head chef), which is why I evolved to the condominium approach, especially as a second home only. Subdivision associations are notoriously too weak to handle the day to day squabbles with people living next to each other full time, and the leakers in particular. It reminds me of Ross Perot’s United We Stand Party, which once they all got together, realized the only thing they could clearly agree on was that they all didn’t like Democrats or Republicans. – Rourke

Letter Re: National Geographic Documentaries on Asian Avian Flu, Hanta Virus, and Biological Warfare

Jim;
Last night on the National Geographic Channel there were two shows [that were aired] back to back that were of interest to anyone in the survival community.

1. Avian Flu Pandemic detailed the history of the bug and the 1997 outbreak in Hong Kong. It showed the spread across Southeast Asia and the methods that are being used to control the spread. Discussed the use of Tamaflu as a treatment and how most governments are reluctant to stockpile it until there is an obvious need. A World Health Organization scientist stated that when such a pandemic does occur it will be too late to stockpile an the only way to survive will be to stay home and take care of your own family. Stated that we will be reduced to the basic human unit “the family”. Also talked about a case that is believed to be human to human transmission. This case was believed to be transmitted to a family member in close contact with a sick girl who had caught the virus while playing near diseased chickens. This girl’s aunt survived the disease, but the girl did not. Also stated that a problem with developing a vaccine for humans is that since [fertile] eggs are used to grow flu virus for vaccine production the eggs are killed by the virus when it is injected into the eggs. The eggs are vulnerable to the virus just as the chickens are.

2.The other program was on Biological Terrorist Attack. This program went through the list of the Center for Disease Control’s top six dirty bugs of germ warfare. Very eye opening and very chilling.

Anyway, all this spiked my interest so this morning I went to the National Geographic web site and was looking for more information about Bird Flu. I found a link on the news page to two stories on bird flue that should interest everyone.

1. Bird flu vaccine helps stop the spread of the disease in chickens.

2.Bird flu fears cause spike in the sale of Star Anise Spice.
This spice is used in the manufacture of Tamaflu according to this article and people in Asia and the U. S. are buying it as a herbal medicine for use against the
flu.

The link is: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ (Scroll down to “Health”)

OBTW, scroll on down to: Pulse of the Planet. See the article titled: Southwest Rodent Boom to Cause Deadly Hantavirus Outbreak

The article says that in roughly one year to eighteen months after a wet winter as we had in the southwest in 2005 causes a boom in rodent population and so more contact between deceased mice and humans increasing the cases of the disease among humans. Stated that the summer of 2005 already showed a rise in the reported number of cases. Thirty-six percent of human cases are fatal. This should start us all thinking more about rodent control around our stored food, et cetera.

Thanks again for all of your great work in providing this site and for all the very much needed information that is shared by everyone here. Count on a donation from me to help with the blog’s cost in the very near future. Long Life, – Overhill

Letter Re: You May Be A Survivalist Redneck If…

Rourke, a SurvivalBlog regular contributor, sent the following:
* – Indicates they are original or modified by me
The other ones are off various web sites that have Jeff Foxworthy jokes.
Obviously the addition of Redneck Survivalist was from me
*If your MREs consist of Jerky, Slim Jims, Cheetoes, and Bud Light, you may be a Redneck Survivalist.
*If you have ever tried to grill Spam, …
If you have more electronic equipment in your truck than in your house, …
*If you think of pig manure as a valuable resource and you can think of several uses for it, …
*If you listen to the weather so you will know how much electricity you will have that day, ….
*If someone says Christmas ham, and you think you are getting a radio, …
If you have to go outside to get something out of the fridge, …
If the hood of your truck is higher than the roof of your house, …
If your tires are worth more than your truck, …
If your honeymoon involved time at a deer camp, …
If you always thought “Guns and Roses” was something you get for your anniversary, …
If your favorite restaurant has a gas pump in front of it, …
If your favorite cologne is Deep Woods Off, …
If your 23-channel CB radio is used to communicate with your family, …
If you’ve ever had a conversation about truck tires that lasted more than an hour, …
If you keep catfish in your aquarium, …
If you know how to milk a goat, …
If your flashlight holds more than four batteries, …
If your 5-year-old can rebuild a carburetor, …
If your wife’s best shoes have steel toes, …
If your idea of home security is keeping all the guns loaded, …
*If your idea of gun control means being able to hit what you aim at, …
*If you don’t know your Social Security number, but know 2nd Amendment, the Star Spangled Banner, and the Preamble to the Constitution word for word, …

JWR Adds:  Let me know if you have any others to add to the list.  A tip of the hat to comedian Jeff Foxworthy, ( http://www.jefffoxworthy.com/ ) who inspired Rourke’s post.

Odds ‘n Sods

Ponder the full implications of  The Debt Clock. See: http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Ldebtclock.htm

. . .

SurvivalBlog reader H.W. mentioned that Jim McCanney at www.jmccanneyscience.com has a series of lectures about extra solar system objects for the next eight weeks. (The series began 12-8-2005).At the website scroll down until you see the archives for each week’s show.

. . .

As reported by Reuters-Italy, Frank Holmes, the CEO of U.S. Global Investors predicts the spot price of gold to advance to $650/oz. in Aught Six.
He cited short supply and burgeoning demand, particularly in Asia. See:
http://www.borsaitaliana.reuters.it/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=fundsNewsUK&storyID=2005-12-13T132152Z_01_NOA348023_RTRUKOC_0_FUNDS-INTERVIEW-GOLD.xml&archived=False

. . .

The recent correction in the price in silver (currently down to around $8.50 per ounce) might be a good chance to buy, those of you that thought that you missed the boat.  I don’t have a crystal ball, but logic dictates that silver will probably be back to +/-$9.30 by the end of  the year. That will just about cover what you would pay in a typical dealer’s commission.  (The dealer’s premium much higher on silver than gold, due to higher shipping costs.) OBTW, the temporary disparity with the price of gold (which hasn’t corrected nearly so much) has pushed the silver-to-gold price ratio to more than 61-to-1!  (Two weeks ago it was 58-to-1.) So this might also might be a good chance to “ratio trade” and diversify into silver for any of you that feel over-invested in gold. (For example, if you do not have enough silver on hand for barter.) As my brother says: “Balance in all things!”

Jim’s Quote of the Day

"Life is a great adventure and I want to say to you, accept it in such spirit. I want to see you face it ready to do the best that lies in you to win out. To go down without complaining and abiding by the result… the worst of all fears is the fear of living." – Theodore Roosevelt