Five Letters Re: New-Found Respect for .223 as a Potential Man Stopper

Jim,
In response to Martin’s recent letter [“New-Found Respect for .223 as a Potential Man Stopper]: While the .223 (5.56mm NATO) round may work on the unsuspecting deer or thin-skinned varmint that is standing still, the situation changes when you are dealing with larger animals or highly aggressive and motivated individuals. In times like these, a .30 caliber round, i.e. the .308 (7.62×51 NATO) or Soviet 7.62x39mm is a more dependable man stopper. Why do you think there was a move to the larger 6.8mm round to replace or at least supplant the 5.56mm? Poor performance on the battlefield.

Most soldiers I talk to here [in Iraq] would much rather have a .30 caliber rifle, if given the choice. For hunting, I prefer any .33 caliber or larger for hunting game. I want my game anchored in place when I hit them, and that is more likely to happen with the larger caliber bullets.

The .223 is not a useless cartridge, and I think everybody should have one because it is so common, and there are some who [because of their stature] can better handle the rifles built around this cartridge. But as a choice for a main battle rifle or main hunting rifle, make mine a .30 caliber! Regards, – Stephen in Iraq

Jim
I will have to disagree with [Martin’s assertion that .233 is a potential man stopper] due to the fact that I have been in battle with the .223 against, the 7.62×39 and the 308 caliber. Except for a head shot, the .223 is not a man stopper with one round. It has always been taught to use multiple rounds to make sure. The US military teaches two rounds to the chest and one to the head when using this round. The 7.62×39 and the .308 is a much heavier caliber with more energy and stopping power. These two calibers are the most used calibers in the world of standard battle use, and if your looking for a CQB caliber I would go with 9mm or .45 ACP, or 12 gauge. In my opinion (and you need to trust me on this) the 223 is a nice small game caliber or short ranger sniper caliber but not a good caliber for a primary weapon. This is why the US military is moving toward the .308 in their new battle rifles. – CDR

James:
Martin’s success hunting Bambi with a scoped long-barreled (24-inch bull barrel) .223 bolt-action, shooting extra-heavy bullets that are handloaded for extreme velocity is hardly analogous to self-defense shooting with a semi-auto. He is “comparing apples and oranges.” Most of the AR-15 family guns being built these days are M4 clones with 16″ barrels.or even 14.5″ barrels (and a welded-on flash hider to make it legally 16+ inch length.) And, hey, let’s be realistic, the odds are that they are going to be loaded with standard 55 grain or 62 grain ball ammo. That is the real world. You cannot load a semi-auto with screaming velocity 68 grain bullets. Let’s face it: In the real world .223 just doesn’t cut the mustard as an effective combat round. The.308 Winchester rules. – Clyde G.

Jim
In response to the recent article about the .223 as a man stopper, I commend their fine shooting skills and found the article very interesting since I have also taken a deer with a .223.
I have reservation as to how some readers of this site may misunderstand the information provided. Most of the .223 caliber rifles we deal with on SurvivalBlog.com are of the AR type. Yes I agree that when the .223 is hand loaded with high performance bullets and fired from a long barreled bolt action rifle is has a substantially increased amount of energy over factory loads. When in the hands of a good marksman it could be used to take down deer and would be much more lethal against humans. But, the performance achieved by this writer should not be used to over estimate the capabilities of this cartridge. The data used in the article does not apply to a short barrel AR-type rifle using the FMJ military style ammo that it was designed for. In fact I doubt that this cartridge would perform reliably in most AR’s. Most any cartridge can be loaded to perform over their commercially designed level. A custom loaded .308 fired from a bolt action, 26-inch barrel rifle will perform at the level of a 300 Winchester Magnum, but I certainly would not fire that round it in my M1A. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Jack R

Hi Jim,
Great web site as always! SurvivalBlog a daily must-read and I recommend it all the time–usually to find out my friends that I’m recommending it to are already reading it!

I was just wondering about the best .223 rounds, after reading the letter “New-Found Respect for .223 as a Potential Man Stopper.” Perhaps you could go into some detail with your own thoughts on this subject? The old 55 grain milsurp was a great round out of a slow-twist long barreled M16 or AR-15, but perhaps it’s less effective out of the faster twist rifling shorter barreled “M4geries” popular today.

Also, as civilians in a post SHTF scenario, we won’t be restricted by [Hague] Convention regulations concerning hollow points and other special bullets. What are your thoughts on the best bullets to maximize the killing / stopping / wounding characteristics of our .223 rifles?

I recognize that eventually we may be scrounging every round of any type of milsurp we can get our hands on, but for the crucial first months of when the SHTF, it will pay to have mags loaded with the very most effective bullets/cartridges available today. There will be no long term survival if we don’t get past the opening stages of SHTF, which might be a chaotic bloodbath, especially during a bugout or a period of mass refugee movement. Thanks, – Matt Bracken

JWR Replies: I hold with the consensus that .308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO is preferable for nearly all defensive rifle shooting scenarios. But I can see the wisdom of having a few .223 (5.56mm NATO) rifles and carbines for specific circumstances, namely:
A.) As a transitional training rifle for youths.(Moving up from .22 rimfire to .308 Winchester is quite a leap for a 12 year old Just ask our #2 Son!)
B.) To equip disabled, elderly, and/or very small-statured (although it is notable that my petite wife does just fine with .308 semi-auto with a shortened barrel and stock.)
C.) As a long range patrol (LRP) or “long trek” on-foot G.O.O.D. defensive weapon. and,
D.) Just for the sake of having a rifle in your battery that can fire the ubiquitous military and police rifle cartridge in North America. (You never know when you might acquire a case of 5.56mm NATO!)

For those of you that do decide to add a .223 rifle to your battery, there is one crucial thing to keep in mind: Most of the .223 soft nose bullets available for handloading and nearly all of the commercially-loaded soft nose .223 Remington ammunition use semi-jacketed spire point bullets that are designed for instantaneous expansion on contact. This is because they were designed specifically for varmint hunting. This makes them sub-optimal for defensive use against two-legged predators at range. (Although if you live in town and are worried about accidentally penetrating several walls, then rapid expansion and disintegration is a good thing! The Hornady TAP bullet is a good design for this.) Fortunately, since .223 is gaining popularity for deer hunting in the eastern US, this should soon change. I anticipate that .223 “large game” (slow expansion) soft nose bullets and factory loaded ammunition will be available from most of the major ammunition makers within a couple of years.

Until slow expansion soft point ammunition is available, I recommend buying nearly all SS-109 (62 grain full metal jacket) ammunition. And even after slow expansion hollow points are available, keep in mind that they won’t have the penetration required to take down an opponent wearing body armor at long range. The ideal solution would be to have ballistically-matched 62 grain soft nose cartridges loaded alternating (every-other round in each magazine) with 62 grain SS-109 cartridges. But that will only be accurate and effective if the two cartridges have nearly identical trajectories. (Working up a ballistically-matching soft nose load is a fun challenge for those of you that handload.)

Odds ‘n Sods:

A huge list of outdoor survival web site links was recently posted over at the Gulching/Self-Sufficiency forum at The Mental Militia Forums.

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I’m now ten chapters in, reading my copy of Michael Z. Williamson’s latest science fiction novel “Better to Beg Forgiveness“. It is set a couple of centuries in the future and follows the adventures of a band of mercenaries sent to guard a national president on a war-torn backwater colony planet. I got a slow start reading the book, given the time constraints of elk and deer hunting season, but now I’m hooked. Thusfar, this book has been a great read, with plenty of the elements that Williamson fans love: action, great technical detail, believable characters, accurate tactics, vivid imagery of distant worlds, and some compellingly deep drama. Note that it is definitely not a book for children! I will post a full review once I’ve finished it. The novel is now available from Amazon.com.

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“Low” Inflation? Egg, Beans, Chicken, Milk: Prices for Key Foods Rising Sharply

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Rod sent us a link to Remington’s web site, where they are hyping their new AR-15 “R-15” clone. It has been reported that these rifles actually built by Bushmaster, one of Remington’s sister companies–also owned by Cerberus Capital Management, the same conglomerate that also own Chrysler Corporation.) Apparently these models are tailored to attract hunters. Aside from a fancy paint job, it appears to be just another variation on a theme, with the same old AR crud-injecting direct impingement gas tube action. The pictured models lack bayonet lugs or threaded muzzles (which would allow them to be fitted with tactical flash hiders or muzzle brakes), apparently to be politically correct. Jim Zumbo would be proud. I guess nobody told the Remington managers that the 1994 Federal Ban expired.

What I’m waiting to review are some truly innovative new designs, such as the Robinson Armament XCR, the MagPul Masada, and the Kel-Tec RFB .308 Bullpup. The latter uses standard FAL magazines and employs a very unusual forward axial cartridge ejection system, just above the barrel. It ejects a fired cartridge case on the same forward stroke of the bolt that chambers each subsequent round, and they “dribble” out the front!

Note from JWR:

Welcome to the many new SurvivalBlog readers in India. Swaagut! (I noticed quite an increase on the most recent update to the ClustrMap for Asia.) Our readership worldwide continues to grow rapidly. With almost 2.25 million hits logged, we are now getting more than 49,000 unique visits per week and burning up 90 gigabytes of bandwidth per month! (Which is a lot for a blog without many graphics.) Thanks for spreading the word, folks!

Letter Re: Preparedness for Urbanites on a Tight Budget

Jim:
I just finished reading “Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse”, and it was great. It was very enjoyable and also worthwhile which is a rare combination in fictional literature these days.

While considering my own situation I had some thoughts which might benefit other people or at least be food for thought. I am a college student and with that comes little expendable income and living in a relatively small space in a relatively large town. in short just about the worst situation possible from a preparedness standpoint. Like many readers I am not in a place where buying 40 acres in an inland mountain area with a spring is going to be feasible for years. Up until recently I thought that because I cannot be totally prepared (if that is even possible) there was no point in doing anything at all. After a lot of consideration I realized that any improvement in the area of preparedness is significant and worthwhile. I have started buying extra canned food, ammo and fuel for my portable stove–a little bit at a time.

Having a week’s worth of food, 5 gallons of water [per person per day for a week] and a few boxes of ammo for each gun is an exponentially better place to be then empty cupboards and little or no ammo. I fall into the Dan Fong style of preparedness, so guns and ammo are relatively my strongest area. Back to the point I realized that any long process starts in small steps starting with the most common occurrence and moving to less likely ones. Thinking only about the most extreme (and relatively unlikely) multi generation TEOTWAWKI-type situation makes the task at hand seem so daunting it seems there is no point in even trying.

I think the place to start is by getting your finances in order (which in this context means spending less then you make, and have something of a safety net). It is far more likely that you will have your hours cut back at work, get laid off altogether, or have one of those $500-to-$1,000 spontaneous expenses (car repair, injury, vet bills, appliance failure, etc) then that modern society will stumble or collapse. Far too many people are one or two paychecks away from the poor house and the aforementioned occurrences hit them the hardest. Having a couple months living expenses set aside is the difference between a mild inconvenience and an emergency. Even from a disaster standpoint money matters. Just look at New Orleans during [Hurricane] Katrina; people with some resources had the option to leave! [And conversely, those didn’t have the means stayed put and suffered for it.]

After getting your finances in order, next focus on getting about a weeks worth of supplies, a decent first aid kit and some more ammo. With reasonable planning even lower income readers can do this. The way I did it was to tighten the proverbial belt and free up about 20 dollars a week which now goes for preparedness items. Think that is not possible? Track everything you spend money on for a couple of weeks then sit down and look at what you bought. By making drip coffee at home instead of getting caffèlattes at Starbucks, cooking instead of going out, having your Saturday night couple of drinks at home instead of a bar, et cetera, almost everyone can free up some money.

Next comes one month worth of beans, bullets and Band-Aids. (This is the stage that I am currently working on). After that 90 days, 120, 180, et cetera.

Realistically, a person could probably not ride out TEOTWAWKI living in an apartment but that doesn’t mean that it is not worth being as prepared as possible before circumstances allow for a more rural home. (Or if you do not choose that sort of lifestyle at all.) Take care of each other, – Ryan

Three Letters Re: Storage Foods for Vegetarians?

James:
I know there are a lot of dedicated vegetarians, including my own grandson, who would have great difficulty maintaining their ideal diet in extreme times. There is good chart available, listing plant food protein combinations
I feel that many would have to become more realistic as the hard labor required to stay alive would preclude being picky about your vittles! You would need the extra calories/fat in meat at least to a modest extent to keep up strength and vitality. We eat vegetarian 2-to-3 times weekly just to learn about it and because we just plain love veggies but we still eat quality beef/chicken/turkey/venison raised by locals the that way we would: Grass, no GMOs, and pastured poultry. Have raised all our own in the past and have facilities/land to easily do this again but we try to support our neighbors efforts to provide safe food. – Dee

 

Mr,. Rawles
I ‘m not a vegetarian but I highly recommend Tasty Bites for vegetarian meals. I have been buying them in stores for many years. I have also purchased from them online when a group of us from work purchased a bulk order and saved a lot of money. I keep them in my Bug Out Bag (BOB) as well as at work for days when I don’t want to go out for lunch or for emergencies. I especially enjoy the meals with the basmati rice, such as the Beans, Masala and Basmati Rice. I don’t find them to be very spicy but some may and they are very filling and satisfying!

This page gives you information on which foods are vegetarian, vegan, kosher, or gluten-free. There is information about packaging on this page.

In short, “…Tasty Bite food is all-natural. It remains fresh for 18 months without preservatives or refrigeration. It’s all in the technology we use. The food is cooked and filled into a uniquely designed multi-layer retort pouch. The pouch is then sealed and the food inside is sterilized, using very high heat and pressure. The sealing and the construction of the pouch ensure that no bacteria or other degrading factors can impact the food. This process also ensures greater retention of the food’s original aroma, texture, nutrients and flavor.
The retort pouch has a sturdy four-layer wall. Each layer provides a barrier from damage and keeps the food safe:
The outermost layer is polyester (PET).
The second layer is nylon.
The third layer is aluminum.
The innermost layer that comes in contact with the food is a food-grade polypropylene…”

I hope you find this helpful! – CA in Oregon

 

Hi Mr. Rawles,
For those looking for vegetarian food with long-term storage capability, they might try efoodsdirect.com. I have not purchased from them and have no affiliation. They do appear to have a largely vegetarian-friendly products. Even most of their “meats” are actually Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP). I have considered purchasing from them, but have not done so yet. I hope to come across an independent assessment of their product before spending several thousand dollars and betting my families health and wellness on it. If anyone has used their product or had dealings with them, I’d be interested in hearing the feedback. Best Regards, – Benjamin

JWR Replies: I am quite leery of buying any food storage package containing substantial amounts of TVP (or other soybean products), but many of their other products seem quite wholesome.

Letter Re: Will “Jericho” be Affected by the Current Screenwriter’s Strike?

Hi Mr. Rawles,
Do you know if the Hollywood writers strike will effect the filming of the CBS television series Jericho? If the [spilt season] filming has been completed, I guess that maybe the strike could be the best thing for Jericho since it would be an all-new show in a lineup of [other shows that are] repeats. Regards, – Sam

JWR Replies: I haven’t heard per se, but it is probably safe to assume that most of the Jericho scripts are written by Writer’s Guild of America (WGA) members. I heard from Rourke–the moderator of the Jericho Discussion Group–that the seven episodes for 2008 are completed, so the writers strike should have no effect, at least for this season.

I agree that their mid-season starting date for the new episodes could give it a competitive edge.

Coincidentally, another show that is slated to start at mid-season is “Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles”. So perhaps both of these quasi-survivalist shows will benefit from the disruption in the regular television season.

According to published reports, “Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles” will premiere at 8 p.m. on January 14, 2008. It will be run on Monday nights.

“Jericho” will return to CBS in January, on a yet to be-announced premiere date. It is as yet uncertain if it will retain its 9 p.m. Friday slot in the new split season.

It bears mentioning that the previous writer’s strike had a significant effect on the television industry. It was because of that strike that “reality” shows got their real start. (Since they are are only loosely scripted.) If the current strike goes on for more than just a few months I can foresee further changes in the industry. One such change might be the advent of direct viewer participation discussion and “adventure” television shows, via cell phone text messaging and the Internet. These would be analogous to on-line chat rooms and on-line role-playing games. Both would give viewers that are not yet web savvy a glimpse of what is going on in cyberspace.

Letter Re: A Source for Free Coffee Grounds for Composting

James:
I found a good source for coffee grounds for using in [gardening] compost. Starbucks packages their used coffee grounds and it’s free for the taking. The packaged grounds are usually located in a bin in any Starbucks store. If you can’t find it just ask for it and they are happy to supply you. Here’s the link that touches on their coffee grounds program.

I hope that others can find this of use in their applications. – Desert T

JWR Adds: Speaking of coffee, it is interesting to note the value of Starbucks stock have become a barometer for overall market and consumer sentiment. When times are good, Starbucks soars. But recently their profits have sagged. Obviously people are cutting back on discretionary spending, perhaps presaging a deep recession ahead.

Odds ‘n Sods:

Mike in Seattle sent this piece from WorldNetDaily: In event of emergency … call out the military? Could this mean the end of the generations-old protections provided by the Posse Comitatus statutes?

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Anyone looking for like-minded survivalist friends (to join a group or form a new group), or perhaps a potential spouse should be sure to check out the Liberty Mates on-line matchmaking service. Liberty Mates was started as a meeting place for Libertarians, homes schoolers and Constitutionalists, but naturally it has a large crossover survivalist readership. So that you’ll be able to find their site in the future, I have added their URL to the SurvivalBlog Links Page. Who knows? You may find the woman of your dreams there. Odds are that she’ll be wearing a Ron Paul ’08 T-shirt, packing a Glock, and have plans to move to Wyoming.

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Reader Rob G. flagged this one: Brazil reports massive oil discovery — Ultra-deep offshore find challenges ‘peak’ theorists pushing ethanol

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JRH Enterprises (one of our most loyal advertisers) is planning a Black Friday (the day after the US and Canada Thanksgiving holiday) sale, this coming Friday, November 23rd.

Note from JWR:

The high bid is now at $250 in the SurvivalBlog benefit auction, for six items: 1.) a Katadyn Pocket water filter, (with a $200 retail value) 2.) a Watersafe field water test kit ( a $27 retail value), both donated by Ready Made Resources, 3.) A copy of the latest edition of “The Encyclopedia of Country Living” by the late Carla Emery (a $32 retail value) 4.) an autographed copy of my novel“Patriots” (a $23 retail value), 5.) an autographed copy of my nonfiction book “Rawles on Retreats and Relocation” (a $25 retail value), and 6.) a SurvivalBlog Logo Contractor/Operator cap (a $13.50 retail value.) The auction ends December 15th. Please send us your bid via e-mail.

Off the Record Comments from a Saudi Prince: Possible Collapse of the US Dollar

A big red flag went up on Saturday, when a “must read” article was published on the web site of The Business (a British international business news magazine): Saudi minister warns of dollar collapse. I loved the bit about the inadvertently open microphone. There is something about “off the record” comments about a potential US Dollar collapse that is strangely reminiscent. (I just can’t quite place it…)

Meanwhile, our friend Stephen in Iraq pointed out this article signaling trouble ahead: US inflation reaches 14-month high. The economic pendulum is definitely starting to swing more violently. I predict that things will turn ugly, possibly quite soon. Once the dominoes start to tumble, countless billions will be wiped out overnight. The derivatives markets are now on the multi-trillion dollar scale, and perched on a precipice. Tomorrow’s headlines will be full of: failed hedge funds suspending all redemptions, stock market collapses, currency collapses, emergency controls on expatriation cash flows, mass inflation, huge taxpayer-funded bailouts, corporate layoffs, $150 per-barrel crude oil, bank withdrawal restrictions, full scale bank runs, and soaring credit card and mortgage default rates. I can’t give you specific time frames for any of these, but I can tell you that we are much closer to living out Chapter 1 of my novel “Patriots” than I’ve ever seen before. Be prepared!

I spotted this news story linked at The Drudge Report: The dollar’s decline: from symbol of hegemony to shunned currency. Think this through to its logical conclusion, dear readers. Get your investments out of anything dollar-denominated, as soon as possible. Don’t let the current relative strength of the Euro and Pound fool you. All of the world’s un-backed paper currencies are on the same downward spiral. It just so happens that the US Dollar is now leading the pack in the race to the bottom. In this economically turbulent decade of the Aughts, the safe place to put the majority of your assets is in tangibles. (First and foremost is a viable retreat in lightly-populated farming or ranching land with plentiful water.) Speaking of tangibles, I noticed that spot silver has dipped back down into the $14.40/ounce range. This might be your last chance to buy some before it zooms up past $20 per ounce.

Those off the record comments by Prince Al-Faisal may have some repercussions. When I last checked, the USD Index was at 75.792. It will be interesting to see where it moves when the markets open on Monday morning. Watch the FOREX closely in coming weeks. I think that we can expect to see some deep drama.

Three Letters Re: The Importance of Making Your BOV Less Visible

Mr. Rawles,
For those of us whose BOV is their primary POV, even using flat one-color paint would draw unnecessary attention. Even if your vehicle needs a “normal” (not flat) paint job, my recommendation would be that you keep your choices of colors dull, and earthy.
Charcoals, browns and dark tans are good colors to use, generally popular and available, yet are much harder for they eye to detect than other colors. In daylight and low-light conditions, these colors blend
with every background. Even at night, a moving, flat black vehicle will stand out more than a moving dark gray/dark tan vehicle.
Matt on the Tennessee/Kentucky border

 

Hey Jim,
Wanted to comment on the visibility of a persons BOV in the everyday world as well as while in the bug out mode!
Camouflage has nothing to do with fancy patterns of earth tones panted on your vehicle and everything to do with blending in and being able to pass unnoticed. It is the art of traveling without standing out
or being singled out as something unusual or interesting!

My 25 year-old maroon Mercedes 300D with an almost constant light coat of road grime on it can go anywhere without notice!! The diesel engine is very dependable and gets pretty good fuel mileage and the trunk is large enough to keep a decent kit, spares and tools ready and at hand. It is the kind of BOV that you could walk by in the parking lot of any sized town or city and never look at twice! It is also a lot farther down the list of [most often] stolen vehicles which is also something that should be considered when looking for transportation.

Yes, I have and think that it is smart to have 4×4 options available for bugging out. But I used the same kinds of thoughts when choosing that vehicle, too! Mine looks like (and actually is) an old work truck [with a Reading/Utility “tool” or “service” body]! Once again it blends in due to its low visual attention drawing looks not any fancy paint work. Tools like a More Power Puller and a H-Lift Jack can be safely hidden away and allow you to go most places you want to go with out the attention grabbing camouflage paint, jacked up 4X4 [suspension] with winch bumper and mud tires that towers over the parking of lesser vehicles! – SD in WV
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Jim
In reference to the article on camouflage for your BOV. Your point is well taken as to not drawing attention to your vehicle by use of abnormal paint schemes before and during travel to your secure site. A very simple way to camouflage a vehicle after arrival at your site is to simply cover it with mud. Once it bakes on for a few days it seems to become impervious to rain. This is quick, simple, and requires little preparation depending on your location. I’m sure you have seen 4x4s coming in from a weekend playing in the back country and it is sometimes hard to determine what make they are let alone what color. I’ve spent a couple of weeks at a time camping and hunting in back wood areas and due to the accumulation of mud on my 4×4 it began to blend in quit well with the surrounding landscape. Once I had a hard time locating it from a distance when it was parked in the edge of a meadow next to pine timber. From across the meadow, about 300 yards, it was near invisible and I knew where to look. If the paint is already a good background color such as brown, tan, gray, this will help with the process. Also eliminate as much chrome as reasonably possible. Parking in a shaded area such as under trees also helps. – Jack R.

Odds ‘n Sods:

Thanks to SJC for sending this: Virulent form of cold virus spreads in U.S.. The general trend is for mutation into less virulent forms, but sometimes a “sport” shows up.

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Hawaiian K. sent us this: The Prophet of Climate Change: James Lovelock–One of the most eminent scientists of our time says that global warming is irreversible — and that more than 6 billion people will perish by the end of the century

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Michael Panzner, writing in his Financial Armageddon blog, posted an article about how troubled Fannie Mae has changed how it calculates the value of bad loans,: A Bearish Treasure Hunt. (Thanks to D.V., for the link.)

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Thanks to Eric S. for sending us this: GE money fund redeeming 96 cents on the dollar

Jim’s Quote of the Day:

"Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand." – Joel 2:1 (KJV)