“By their own follies they perished, the fools.” – Homer, The Odyssey
- Ad Follow the Author Don Shift Basic SHTF Radio: A cop's brief guide for understanding simple solutions for SHTF radio communicationIntimidated and don’t know where to start with radio? This book is the perfect guide to what options you have i.e. GMRS, CB, to ham and basic communication topics.
- Ad SIEGE BELTS: A must-have to secure yourself & those you care about. Comfortable, stunning design goes with any outfit. Lifetime warranty - save on belt replacements! Growing adoption among those who conceal carry. Perfect gift. Essential for travel.High-performance SIEGE STOVES: essential for hurricanes, quakes, grid-down, car breakdown, bug-in/out. SIEGE BELTS: best-kept-secret in EDC. Made in USA!
Note from JWR:
Thanks to all of you that have visited our new spin-off site, SurvivalRealty.com. If you know of anyone looking for a retreat property, please tell them about the site. Keep in mind that there are still a couple of remaining free ad spots for anyone with a retreat property to sell. We plan to have listings worldwide!
- Ad SOURCE FOR IVERMECTIN / HCQ, ANTIBIOTICS, ALL REGULAR MEDS“Mygenericstore” is a well-established pharmacy service that deals primarily with generic medicines produced by quality-assured manufacturers from developing countries.
- Ad Even a mushroom cloud has a silver lining.The Duck & Cover Adventures are a laugh-out-loud look at the apocalypse that readers are calling “Mad Max meets Monty Python.”
Letter Re: The Suburban Resident’s Last Ditch Logistics Play–Store Stock
James:
We poor individuals left stranded in Suburbia have a rough lot when it comes to making survival preparations. An easy trip down the expressway for the Golden Horde, enough ordinances, zoning restrictions, and association bylaws to hamper the efforts of even the most ingenious survivalist, long commutes, and the list goes on. Clearly, its best to get out while you can.
But for those of us stuck here, it makes sense to use whatever resources we have at our disposal, and one of the few areas we just might have the country folk beat is easy shopping.
I know that venturing out into public just on the brink of a societal collapse is a dangerous decision, but it is still a decision that must be made in view of the facts specific to the disaster at hand and your local conditions. Who among us can say he is so well prepared that he would not buy a single item if he knew there would be a coordinated EMP strike tomorrow? Even items unimportant from a survival perspective—a gallon of ice cream, a bottle of your wife’s favorite perfume, or quality violin strings– gain new worth when you realize that you may never have an opportunity to buy that item again.
As I prepare to head off to college, I’d like to share a few points I’ve thought of while working at a major hardware store/warehouse as a stocker.
1. Beware the Just-In-Time (JIT) inventory system. I know this point has been belabored countless times on SurvivalBlog, but at my work we couldn’t even order stock ourselves—our store manager had to request special permission from corporate in any case not covered by the computer. Often, we would receive a shipment the day after we ran out of stock.
2. Get to know your stores. I cannot stress this point enough. If anyone honestly believes they’ll be able to walk into a panicked hardware store and quickly find the materials they need, they’re kidding themselves. At my work, no one can do that on a good day, not even contractors, and quite frankly, often not even employees.
3. Check the top stock/back stock. [JWR Adds: “Top Stock” is retailer terminology for the extra merchandise stored on upper shelves, usually right above each item’s normal shelf location. The term “Back Stock” can vary, but generally refers to extra inventory kept a back room, although some retailers like Home Depot use it to refer to extra inventory kept in large unit boxes behind the normal inventory, on extra deep shelves. To add to the confusion, some other retailers use “Back Stock” to refer to merchandise kept in regional warehouses.] In some cases– including gloves, propane, cleaning chemicals, and other important survival-oriented materials– top stock outnumbered floor stock by as much as 20-to-1.
4. Unless people are edgy and armed, don’t be afraid to break unimportant rules. Go ahead, use the “Employees Only” ladder. If you keep your wits about you, look in the back stock. Stop thinking like you did before the disaster happened and do what you must to keep yourself and your family alive.
5. Plan your route in advance– including alternate routes. Avoid attracting attention, travel in groups if there’s danger, split up if the danger is negligible, and go as heavily armed as is appropriate.
6. In some stores, it helps to get to know the employees. This one’s fairly simple, but in a life-or-death situation it just might make a difference to be the person who gets the last of the plywood, or the bottle of Cipro, or the slightly “irregular” ammunition the gun store owner locked away just in case.
There are many other instances where the very infrastructure we rightly fear as leading to our doom can also help us get out the door or barricade it with sandbags, so to speak. Public libraries. Pharmacies. Animal hospitals. Industrial and artisans’ workshops that may contain important materials. Churches, even (“Hey Pastor, mind if I borrow a few bibles? I have this feeling…”) Depending on the pace of the crash, all these places and more should be considered for one last “shopping spree,” especially by those unable to make these purchases now for financial reasons.
Of course, I welcome anyone else’s comments. God Bless, – Daniel C.
- Ad Survival RealtyFind your secure and sustainable home. The leading marketplace for rural, remote, and off-grid properties worldwide. Affordable ads. No commissions are charged!
- Ad Rural Home Defense: non-fiction by author Don ShiftA cop's guide to protecting your rural home or property during riots, civil war, or SHTF. A sequel in the Suburban Defense series.
Letter Re: Advice on .308 Enfields Versus AKs for Barter/Charity
Mr. Rawles:
I am writing concerning the letter in which the gentlemen suggested using Enfield 2A Ishapores for Barter/Charity. In my opinion, you would be better off buying an SKS than an Enfield 2A Carbine. The SKS is cheaper at $179.95 (at AIM Surplus) compared to the Enfield at $229.95, and it comes with a bayonet. The SKS can be easily modified to accept 30rd magazines which are easily available, whereas the Enfield is limited to 10 rounds and the magazines are hard to come by. I have not been impressed with the ProMag Enfield 2A magazines. None of the ones I have ordered functioned properly. You would be better off buying a new factory production from Numrich. Furthermore, the price for 7.62 x 39 Russian is much cheaper than 7.62 NATO, and it is still a very potent calibre. Finally, SKSes are plenty reliable and plenty accurate, so you also don’t lose anything there.
So for the same amount of money if you bought SKSes, you could arm more people with better weapons and give them more ammunition. I am not saying the Enfield 2A is a bad weapon, but I don’t believe arming untrained neighbors is its optimal role. If you are worried about them taking their time for a shot, and not blowing through a whole magazine, then they were not trained very well. So if they were not trained very well, are you sure it matters if they take their time? As for barter, I think the SKS would also be more valuable because most people would rather have the semi-auto over the bolt and it looks meaner to the lay person. Just my two cents. Thanks, – Paul
JWR Replies: I stand by my assertion that equipping poorly trained volunteers with bolt actions is preferable to arming them with semi-autos. Granted, 7.62×39 costs only half as much as 7.62mm NATO. But if the volunteers from your “Neighborhood Watch on Steroids” get trigger happy when under pressure–and believe me, they will–they could easily expend five times as much ammunition, with not much to show for it other than a pile of brass. (There is something about a 30 round magazine in a semi-auto that just begs a newbie to pull the trigger rapidly.)
Here is a compromise to consider: How about equipping them with bolt action rifles chambered in 7.62 x 39 Russian? That way, they would benefit from lower recoil and less expensive ammunition. And again, the benefit is the ammunition-conserving bolt action. You could start with any small ring Mauser–even a pre-1899 production (“no paperwork”) Model 1893, such as the Turkish contract Oberndorf Mausers available from The Pre-1899 Specialist. Then have your local gunsmith retrofit the Mauser with a carbine-length 7.62x39mm barrel, available from Numrich. If you had a big budget, you might even consider buying a few Remington Model 799s. (their hunting bolt action chambered for the AK round.) OBTW, SurvivalBlog readers in the firearms-deprived portions of the British Commonwealth might consider the Australian International Arms M10A1/A2 or perhaps an Enfield K to fill this same role.
And on a humorous note, speaking of the semi-auto versus bolt action debate, you might enjoy reading this comparison by the folks at 7.62x54r.net of AR, AK, and Mosin Nagant owners. (A hat tip to Richard at KT Ordnance, for recommending it.)
- Ad USA Berkey Water Filters - Start Drinking Purified Water Today!#1 Trusted Gravity Water Purification System! Start Drinking Purified Water now with a Berkey water filtration system. Find systems, replacement filters, parts and more here.
- Ad AFFORDABLE FAMILY RETREAT FOR SALE IN ARIZONA MOUNTAINS: Year-round spring/creek close to property, Ideal location, Small conservative self-sufficiency-minded community, Set up for Homesteading, Hunting, Guest House, StorageAffordable AZ Mtn Retreat: 3-BDR + guest house, near spring, garden, ckn coops, greenhouse frame, hunting/foraging, food storage, ideal location, small community, AirBnB-ready
Letter Re: “Patriots” and Other Preparedness Titles Not Available at All Libraries
Dear Mr. Rawles,
I was at my local public library and noticed they did not have a copy of your novel [“Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse”]. I inquired of our head librarian and she agreed to order your book. As a matter of fact, she ordered it while I was chatting with her. Perhaps some more of your loyal readers would be willing to contact the many public libraries and ask them to order some specific books. They too might order your book as well as other preparedness books. Respectfully, – Happy Howie
JWR Replies: I appreciate that suggestion. In addition to my novel “Patriots”, SurvivalBlog might consider requesting some of the books and DVDs listed in my Bookshelf page. (Starting with my “Must Read” list.) Having those in circulation locally might get some of your neighbors more motivated to prepare–or at least better informed.
- Ad Ready Made Resources, Trekker Water Filtration SystemUsed throughout the World
- Ad Elbit PVS14 No Gain White Phosphor 10 year warrantyCall us if you have Questions 800-627-3809
Odds ‘n Sods:
John and Abigail Adams suggested this training video on the use of the Israeli field dressing.
o o o
RBS thought that readers might enjoy reading this report from Afghanistan: ‘I could feel the breeze as the bullets went by’
o o o
Reader Nick M. alerted us to the fact that the Popular Mechanics August “Survive Anything” cover story (previously mentioned in SurvivalBlog) is now available on their Web site to read for free download. Nick’s comments: “The series of articles discusses how technology has made humanity more comfortable, but how our reliance on it has also made us more susceptible to the wrath of nature. The article includes a lot of advice on emergency preparedness, and there are online extras including an audio slide show of tornado-town Kansas, disaster checklist, and preparedness quiz.”
- Ad Seed for SecurityOur Colossal Survival Pack is now on sale for 25% off. This pack contains over 5 pounds of non-GMO, open-pollinated seeds packed for long term storage.
- Ad Suburban Defense: non-fiction by author Don ShiftA cop's how-to guide to protecting your home and neighborhood during riots, civil war, or SHTF.
Jim’s Quote of the Day:
“The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedom.” – Justice William O. Douglas (1898-1980), U. S. Supreme Court Justice (Public Utilities Commission v. Pollack, 1952)
- Ad Barter and Sell at Simcour Trading PostA new site for individuals to barter and sell items of interest to other like-minded individuals
- Ad USA Berkey Water Filters - Start Drinking Purified Water Today!#1 Trusted Gravity Water Purification System! Start Drinking Purified Water now with a Berkey water filtration system. Find systems, replacement filters, parts and more here.
Note from JWR:
Whenever you contact a vendor mentioned in SurvivalBlog–whether or not they are one of our advertisers–please mention where you saw their name. Every bit of publicity helps. Thanks!
- Ad California Legal Rifles & Pistols!WBT makes all popular rifles compliant for your restrictive state. Choose from a wide range of top brands made compliant for your state.
- Ad Add some optimism to your gearwith these double velcro backed morale patches.
Letter Re: Suitability of Missouri as a Retreat Locale?
Dear Mr. Rawles,
In response to your post replying to ‘Marie R.’ regarding Missouri as a retreat location; here is some information that other families on this blog may find interesting. I’m writing this as someone who has a wide venue of travel and associations across the country. I am a professional trucker, a licensed ham radio operator for over 35 years, and was employed in the defense electronics industry for many years. I have been preparing for TEOTWAWKI here in the mountains of the Arkansas Ozarks for some time.
With no disrespect to your research and personal choice(s) for retreats, one of the best kept secrets for quality living is the Arkansas-Missouri Ozarks. Our attributes have been many in this region for years and some improvement in the dynamics and demographics in recent times. In my opinion, the best area of Missouri is the area south of the I-44 corridor from about Joplin to Union, Missouri then a line south to the west of Poplar Bluff and back across the top of the Arkansas border. I agree with JWR on the population density issue especially considering Kansas City and St. Louis metro areas. Interstate 70 is the worst place to consider a SHTF bugout route (not that I-44 would be a cruise either).
The Arkansas/Missouri Ozarks is becoming a top choice for military and government retirees, combat veterans, and people desiring a wholesome, honest, environment to raise families.
We have 4 true seasons here. Gardens do well as long as you do them in raised beds (rocks we have!!), a natural food supply in wild game,all the fish you can catch, herbal plants, plenty of wood for heating/steam plant generation, natural springs, and of course the biggie, lots of water!
Real estate is still reasonable compared to other areas and more bargains on remote property will be had as the bubble continues to deflate. Within 25 miles of my homestead, I have alliances varying from a retired border patrol officer, numerous Navy/Coast Guard brass, to some persecuted souls of the 1990s patriot movement who survived and moved here. We need more informed, God fearing, like minded people here to help cement the communities. Missouri now has enacted the Castle Doctrine on self-defense and concealed carry is now becoming a reality. Governor Matt Blount has turned the state management/government in a more conservative direction and it appears that the big city liberals have been pushed into the corner. (At least for now.)
Do your research on Ozarks trees, wildlife, plants, culture and history and then come see what it’s about. I think you will be pleasantly surprised regardless of the nuclear downwind issue. In reality, everyone could use a bomb shelter when the time comes. Like all preparedness, it’s a decision. Thank You, – Skytower in Arkansas
- Ad Click Here --> Civil Defense ManualThe Civil Defense Manual... The A to Z of Survival. Look what in it... https://civildefensemanual.com/whats-in-the-civil-defense-manual/
- Ad L3 UNFILMED WHITE PHOSPHOR COMMERCIAL GRADE NIGHT VISION PACKAGEHuge Savings $400 off normal cost!
Letter Re: Steam Locomotives in a Post-TEOTWAWKI World?
Dear Jim and Family,
Its true that boiler maintenance and safety are a serious concern. As my wife is a rail fan (train chaser), she knows a bit, and knows people who know a lot more. One of these was kind enough to send me this info in his reply.
“Bear in mind that the great costs mentioned are all meant to get the boilers up to federal-mandated standards, i.e. extremely safe conditions. If you just want to get it to function, you don’t have to do near as much work. The problem of course is that while under steam you have several thousand gallons of superheated water just looking for a breach in the boiler that will allow that water to expand something on the order of 1800 times in volume instantaneously. Boom.
While the concept of a steam engine is simple, its implementation grows more complex with its scale. How do you inject water into a vessel already at 250 psi? How do you preheat that cold water so that the thermal shock of the water entering the boiler doesn’t fatigue and eventually crack it? How do you deal with the impurities in the water inevitably left behind as the
water evaporates and departs as steam? There are systems designed to take care of all of that, but that’s just more hardware to break and
repair/replace.
The only restrictions on track depend on the particulars of the engine — the curves shouldn’t be too tight for its wheelbase and the bridges should be strong enough to support it.“
My thoughts center on use of stainless steel (including the new cheap nitrogen impregnated stainless steel) listed as Nickel-free stainless 404GP and 445M2 alloys.
Cheap stainless changes the entire equation on affordable and reliable steam since you end the spalling problem in the firebox. There’s still quite a few old steam engineers running around, as well as enthusiasts restoring and running old engines they buy for a $1 and “please remove this from my property” from the former owner, often a lumber yard with a railroad spur somewhere in the back. Steam fitters and boilermakers unions have men capable of welding up pressure vessels. They need the plans, but rail fan associations typically have those, as well as in archives of existing railroads. Despite the company reputation, the people working there aren’t all ba****ds. Many genuinely love trains, and most will keep them running, though the legal issues of running excursions on active lines is a major regulatory headache. Think of railroad companies being massively burdened with regulations and you’ll sympathize with their headaches.
The original discussion was regarding restoration of old engines and using them to haul people around. That’s a good idea, for style if nothing else, but not the best idea for function. If you build steam engines from the ground up, there’s a degree of sense in using hybrid techniques, as hybrid trains came decades before hybrid cars. A hybrid steam engine running an electric motor and batteries would resolve a lot of those pressure, maintenance, and safety issues affecting traditional piston train engines. If any mechanical engineers are reading, give some thought to designing a modern steam engine with the advantages of cheap stainless steel, modern pressure vessels, steam turbines, and automatic relief valves, and an eye towards multiple fuels, from low quality oil, coal, and even firewood if need be. Thanks to Peak Oil, trains are our best bet to offer some shipping between cities and towns, and local transport of goods and people. I think there’s a great deal of merit in this, and a real future with them, despite their initial hurdles. Best, – InyoKern
- Ad The Good News About Nuclear Destruction.The lethality of all nukes can be reduced by 90% when you know beforehand what to do and not do.
- Ad Click Here --> Civil Defense ManualHow to protect, you, your family, friends and neighborhood in coming times of civil unrest… and much more, Go to www.civildefensemanual.com for contents.
Odds ‘n Sods:
Our friend Nick recommended this article by Douglas MacKinnon at Townhall.com: The Two Things To Know Before Your City is Nuked By Terrorists
o o o
My thanks to “J”, who gave a prominent plug for SurvivalBlog over at The Rumor Mill News Reading Room.
o o o
Alphie sent us this one: NYPD Warns Of Homegrown Terror Threat
Jim’s Quote of the Day:
"A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law." – Justice John Marshall (1755-1835) US Supreme Court Chief Justice
Note from JWR:
We are pleased to announce the launch of a SurvivalBlog spin-off web site, www.SurvivalRealty.com. Be sure to check it out. You will find that it is a truly unique web site. All of the properties there are suitable for survival retreats. You will see no urban or suburban properties, no time shares, no condos, and no McMansions on postage stamp-size lots. This is a pleasant change from searching typical Internet real estate sites, where finding a survival retreat is like finding a needle in a haystack. The properties featured at SurvivalRealty.com will come from both licensed agents and “For Sale by Owners” (FSBOs.) I personally review and approve each property for its survival retreat potential before it is posted. Most of the legwork for the new site is being handled by Todd Savage, a real estate agent that I know and trust. His office is in Bonners Ferry, Idaho. And not coincidentally, Idaho is my top choice for relocation and survival retreats. To get the new site off to a fast start, advertising during the first three months is available free of charge, but only for the next six individuals or agents that submit listings.
Letter Re: Recent Floods in the UK and the Impact on Our Preparations
Further to my recent post about the recent flooding In the UK, things in the immediate area are pretty well back to normal now, aside from some continuing disruption to the road network due to land-slips, undermining and in some cases, bridges across water courses being washed away.
Here, we got off very lightly, compared to some. No loss of life, no injuries, very little property damage. There are many families, however, who will be counting the cost of this incident for a long time, both in terms of loss of loved ones and of property and livelihood. One’s heart goes out to them.As to how our preparations ameliorated the effects of the flooding, I must first of all say we were very lucky to have escaped. The waters found their way into areas never before affected, with properties and farmland many feet above the normal floodplain levels being covered. In one case, a farm tractor in just such a place was up to its cab-roof in floodwater.
However, we moved to this area for work purposes in 1999. Prior to the move we rented a property in the area to give us a base from which to explore and familiarise ourselves with it.
The next task was to obtain 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey maps of the entire region and work out the pros and cons of each likely area for settlement.
To the east of this region lies the flat, productive lands of the Vale of Evesham which, as beautiful and fertile as they may be, are crisscrossed with so many waterways that the map of the area appears to have varicose veins. To the west the topography changes as it moves into the mountains of Wales, an area of stunning countryside, so well beloved of tourists in the summers, but one so bleak in winter that it is used by Special Forces as a training ground. [JWR Adds: This is the “Brecon Beacons” area that many SurvivalBlog have read about in books about the SAS.]
In-between the two the land becomes one of foothills, with small peaks up to a thousand feet or so.
The area has several cities, many towns and villages, with all the concomitant amenities and services along with a good transport infrastructure. It ticked many of the boxes we had earmarked as necessities.
It also has one of the most unstable rivers in Europe running through it; the River Severn. With its source in the hills of mid-Wales, the Severn is one of many local rivers that feed from the mountains of Wales and find their way to the sea further south in England after joining with the Severn.
Coming in from the east is the River Avon, of Shakespeare and Stratford-upon-Avon fame. Another picturesque watercourse when in good humour, but truly frightening when in flood. This too joins the Severn as it moves west towards the sea.
Given all this water, the thought of joining the many flood-plain dwellers (does this name not give them a clue?) along these rivers did not have much appeal. Also not wanting to live in an urban environment, we ruled out the cities and larger towns. This led us to ‘head for the hills’ but given the additional need to be reasonably close to transport links due to work commitments, a compromise had to be reached.
We finally settled on (in?) the outskirts of a village in the foothills which had the requisite communication links and was high enough to avoid all but truly Armageddon-like flooding from the river system.
Being doomers by inclination and country folk by nature, we set about making the place as self-contained as possible given the constraints of time, money and the desire not to look out of place.
Water was a primary objective. Having invested so much time and effort trying to avoid it, we now installed a series of linked barrels to collect around 500 gallons of rainfall run-off from the various roofs. (The long term plan was to install underground storage but an impending move has forestalled this). This to be used in the summer for assisting with garden irrigation and for hygiene use should the need arise.
There is a mains supply of potable water, supplemented by bought bottled and spring water from the adjacent hills captured and stored in ex-military containers. (Again an underground cistern was planned).
When the recent floods hit, we found unprecedented amounts of rain had fallen (up to 131mm locally) in just over 24 hours and the subsequent run-off completely overwhelmed the drainage systems. It is not uncommon in these parts for the hill roads to turn into rivers after a storm, but the amount coming off the peaks was phenomenal. Due to our location on a hillside, we were in little danger of standing –floods, but fortunately had sandbagged the ventilation bricks and doorways to deal with the expected run off. Even so, the bags were in danger of being overtopped by the sheer volume of water. This caught us somewhat by surprise, never before had we needed to cover these points.
The mains water supply is electrically pumped throughout the area, so it is not unknown for it to fail when the power goes down. We had sufficient water available to deal with what was thankfully a short-term event. However, the provision of more capacity could only be a good thing especially in the event of a long term incident.Our electricity supply is mains provided, but due to local conditions is fairly unreliable, going off on average once a month. We have back-up for heating, cooking and lighting, with a variety of methods for providing for each. As well as propane heaters and cooking rings, we have wood stored and several camping style cooking sets using differing fuels. Lighting from candles, hurricane and Coleman lamps as well as the ubiquitous MagLites complete the list. Wind up radios are used to keep connected to news services.
This system works well for us in a bug-in situation, with some of the kit doubling for the bug-out bags, in which it is normally kept. It again worked this time and we are currently replenishing supplies ready for the autumn and winter weather.
We thought that given the predicted rainfall, bugging-in would be the best solution and this proved to be so. We also planned to be on site during the event as the lower surrounding area a re prone to flooding and we have been cut-off in the past. Had we been caught out of position, one or more of us would have been stranded. Cars were washed away by previously unheard of levels of rainfall and all exit routes were simply inundated. We have multiple exit routes planned and driven, but all were closed in a very short time.
Several staff members at one of our employers, who also live nearby, had to remain in the building for several days, unable to get out . Even if they could have escaped the building, they would have been unable to return to their homes due to the floodwaters.
Being aware of the potential for the area to become cut off by bad weather, we keep an above average level of consumables in. This includes foodstuffs, medications, hygiene materials etc. We keep little in freezers, having lost the contents once too often when power remained off too long. Most foods are either canned or dried and when the power does fail, we emulate the NCIS agents Jethro Gibbs and Kate Todd and eat the ice-cream before it melts!
When we could get from the property into the nearby town, we found the shelves of the shops were depleted of nearly everything. Some panic buying had apparently occurred, but this was also down to the inability to re-supply them as the entire area was cut off from road and rail links. The disturbing part about this was that this took no more than a couple of days for the shelves to empty. It seems that the ‘just-in-time’ approach also now applies to your local food store and those behind-the-shop front warehouses are no longer filled with more than a day or two’s goods.
What this would mean in a long term situation became all too obvious further down the Severn’s route as large scale efforts had to be mobilised to bring in bottled water and emergency food supplies to stranded people.
In summary, our initial site location work and subsequent ‘prepping’ served us well during this event, but if any of us had been caught out of position, or had we decided at the last minute to ‘bug-out’ as flood levels rose, we might well have found ourselves in a different situation.
No matter what precautions one takes, it is surely down to the Grace of God as to what happens and how well you fare. We are currently planning our next adventure, a move out of the UK to a small patch of land somewhere in the Mediterranean. The planning and preparation for this has been ongoing for several years. More on that in a future article. Keep safe. – Michael in England
Letter Re: Advice on Pump Action Shotguns
Dear Mr. Rawles,
Regarding your recent comments on shotguns, I’d like to add the following opinion:
I own a gun shop and I get -many- people looking to buy their first shotgun. The first question I ask them (and probably a good question to ask ones self before making any purchase) is: “What do you intend to use it for?”. Different guns for different purposes. When they tell me they want an all around do everything shotgun (which is how the shy and low-key convey that they want a defensive shotgun), the choice usually come down to the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870. Both are great shotguns. Both are used by the US military and both are found in law enforcement. Both have a fair bit of aftermarket parts and accessories (not all of them useful) available.
When customers ask me to choose between the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870, I go with the Remington.
Magazine capacity – A standard Mossberg 500 (the one sitting on my desk right now is a inventory gun, 500BB in 16 ga. with a cut down barrel to 21 inches) holds 5 rounds in the magazine. To put an extended magazine on this particular gun, one must replace the entire magazine tube (and it’s guts), as the existing one is closed on the muzzle end and has a threaded hole in the center that the barrel retaining nut (“magazine cap”) screws into. If I take this commonly encountered gun and put an extended magazine on it I now need to get a different barrel as this one one can not mount properly with an extended mag.
On a Remington 870, I unscrew the barrel retaining nut (“magazine cap”) and replace the magazine spring with the new longer one and screw on the magazine extension. Re-install original barrel. Done. On later 870s it may be necessary to drill out two small ‘dimples’ at the end of the magazine tube that retain a superfluous magazine plug. Big deal. [JWR Adds: Brownell’s sells a special mandrel designed for pressing out these dimples. Every retreat group that has standardized with 870s should acquire one of these tools.]
Parts availability – The two most common shotguns are the Mossberg 500 series and the Remington 870 and all the aftermarket accessories people know this. If you were to make a list of all the Mossberg accessories available and all the 870 accessories available, the lists would be long, but the 870 list would be longer. More options.
Construction – Both guns are used my military and law enforcement, so you know that can take rough use. One common problem I see with Mossbergs is that the safety selector is plastic (on the mil-spec model they are steel); this causes enough problems that one of the more widely purchased aftermarket accessories for the 500 is a replacement safety made of steel.
Both guns (on current models) have plastic triggerguards. The Remington has one that has a built in locking device. Yesterday I had a fellow come in who had bought a used 870 with a locking device but no key. It wasn’t a problem, as he had not planned to ever lock the gun, but it turns out you can lock the gun by just turning the safety with a fingernail or, in his case, a cleaning brush while cleaning the gun. To -unlock- the gun, you need the key. That’s bad. Mossberg has wisely avoided this mistake.
One thing that makes a big difference for me is that the Remington receiver is steel while the Mossberg is alloy. It may not make a practical difference, but I just feel better with the heavier gun. Also, the 500 receiver is anodized and once the finish wears off, your only choices are stove paint, tape or shine.
Commonality – Both guns are extraordinarily common. Together I believe they account for the majority of pump action sales in the US. While both guns are used by military and law enforcement, the 870 is the hands down law enforcement favorite, and thus more likely to be found/recovered from ‘official’ sources.
One great advantage the Mossberg has is price: it’s cheap (or as I like to describe it “entry level priced”). The cheap shotgun you have -right now- is a whole heck of a lot better than the expensive shotgun that you were planning to buy in 3 months! Also, when compared to the Remington 870, spare barrels seem to be a bit cheaper on the used market.
For my “just in case” customers, I tell them:
• Remington synthetic stock 870 Special Purpose [Parkerized] finish 12 ga. with a 3-inch chamber with a 26 or 28 inch bird barrel with a full assortment of screw in chokes.
• Spare smoothbore rifle-sighted slug barrel in 20 inch.
• In reserve, a Wilson combat/Scattergun Technology two shot magazine extension, a six shell ‘side-saddle’, a clamp-on M1913 rail for mounting a small light on the barrel (I like and own the Surefire fore-ends, but the cost is prohibitive and they use very specific parts. A clamp-on M1913 rail allows for mounting a variety of lights, including a spare M3 or M6 pistol light, which one should already have).
• Usual spares, slings and support parts and tools.
Remington and Mossberg both make fine guns that possess the great feature of what I call ‘modularity’; the ability to be easily reconfigured by the end-user to suit multiple purposes with a minimum amount of tools and skill. I often tell my customers that they should think of the 500 and the 870 (and the AR-15) as ‘Lego kit’ guns; you can pretty much snap-on and snap-off parts and accessories as needed.
A very, very distant third choice for shotguns would be the classic Ithaca 37s. All metal, no plastic and bottom ejecting for left handed shooters. Used as a military gun up through Vietnam and the classic LAPD gun for many years.The NYPD has [also] used this gun for over 50 years (in everything from 13 inch to 30 inch) and I can tell you first hand that a lot of those original purchase guns bought when President Eisenhower was in office are still riding around the mean streets. You’ll never find spares and accessories like you will for the Mossbergs and Remingtons though.
Best, – RMV