Economics & Investing For Preppers

51 Comments

1. During the Clinton gun ban/ with sunset provisions standard Glock mags went from $25 to $125 new. And to $75 [for one that was] used. I believe the next ban will have no sunset. You may see the 33 rd mags go to $200 or more.
   So I basically agree with Jim.

   1. Yup and the green machine won’t send me overseas to Germany this time to buy more from their gunshops LOL

2. I will miss Herman Cain on the Varney show in the morning..He had great wisdom

   1. We will miss him too… Herman Cain was a great man and a gentleman. Our prayers are with his family, and we believe and trust that Herman is in the presence of our Loving Lord and Savior.

   2. Yes, I will also miss him. He was always a great guest on the programs on Fox.

      Rock on

3. One comment that bears repeating here regarding the ‘price’ of things like gold, oil, guns, bullets, etc.
   An ounce of gold (or anything else for that matter) has its own intrinsic value – its worth what it is worth, and no more.
   When someone says “gold’s price increased to $2000/oz. (or similar)”, they are not telling you that the ounce of gold is worth more (its still just an ounce of gold), but rather the value of your measuring stick (The USD) that has changed. If it takes more dollars to buy that same ounce of gold than it did last week, its not the ounce of gold that changed, its the dollar you’re exchanging for it.
   I explain this to my kids with a candy bar (Twix are popular in this household): its still the same candybar (granted, sometimes they change recipe/weight, etc.), but a Twix bar today costs 3x what I paid as a kid. Same bar, same dollars, but the value of one of those is different by a factor of 3. It _could_ be that people don’t care for Milky Ways anymore, and are willing to pay more for a Twix bar, but when I see the price of a MilkyWay is the same as the Twix, I know its not a caramel conspiracy!
   Teach your children well!

   1. Hey K, I have taught my children well, it’s Peppermint Patties all the way! 🙂 They were 5¢ when I was a collecting pop bottles to buy one but now they’re closer to a buck.

      1. You might have some fun making your own peppermint patties! We have done this, and they were quite the treats… Having sampled the homemade version, we think we’ll never really be able to return to the commercial versions. Have fun with the idea.

         1. Hey T of A, it never crossed my mind you could make them at home. I’m definitely going to try that. Thanks for the tip! 🙂

            1. Here’s a link from the Allrecipes.com website:

               https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/24067/peppermint-patties/

               It may be possible to sub-in coconut oil for the vegetable shortening, but I haven’t yet experimented with this — so a bit of an unknown!

               Also… Refrigerate (better yet — freeze) your filling “discs” before dipping in the chocolate. This makes them more manageable.

               One more tip… The chocolate you use for the dip-coating matters. You may want to experiment with this a bit — relative “crisp” of the bite vs. softness, and flavor too. Also how the chocolate is prepared, and whether its simply melted or truly tempered.

               The good news is that this is relatively easy and does not have to be complicated at all. The fun in it is that with a little experimentation, you can easily become a peppermint patty candy maker.

   2. Now, that is something I have not thought of before, thank you for sharing!

      1. Making our own peppermint patties is an economics lesson of its own. I am enjoying this conversation and am eager to try the recipe.

         Carry on in grace

   3. What you say is true as far as it goes but there is so much more to the price of gold. It is really about perception. The dollar did not go down in value as much as the price of gold went up. If it had than the price of silver would be well over $50-100 today. The price of gold went up because of the perception that our economic problems would get worse and the buyers of PM’s prefer gold because of the physical size/weight to store/hide vs the same value in silver. In other words the individual buyers of gold, not commercial buyers, are more enamored with gold than they are with silver. WHEN the dollar value does truly drop dramatically the rise in the price of silver will parallel the price of gold.

   4. how long did your father work for that bar and how long do you?

4. U.S. Dollar index as of 10:44 AM July 31st 2020 is 93.05

5. Economic conditions are going to be tough, and probably a bit rocky or even jagged for awhile. We have seen quite a few seismic moves since 2008. The movements come on quickly and with great force. I believe we should anticipate more of these… They are signs of exactly how serious the underlying problems are and how fragile our country has become from the standpoint of its economic underpinnings (and not to mention all the other ways in which the country has become fragile).

   Our economic hope as a nation is the rebuilding of our infrastructure — specifically and in a broad and comprehensive way — raw materials development, some elements of traditional manufacturing, and advances in science and technology. I am not overlooking the economic concept of comparative advantage related to trade, but I am acknowledging that comparative advantage should not govern over and above national security. President Trump sees all of this, and he is taking action in so far as he is able to do so.

   Meanwhile — the Marxist Left defends and even praises the CCP.

6. @ K and St Funogas, know what you mean. In the mid 50’s, hostess cupcakes were $.10 for a package of two, then they went to .12 cents ( and Dad really bitched about it ), then he really griped about when they went to . 15 a package. Now when I buy the L debbie version, the are $1.25 to $ 1 .50.. == just another old fart remembering things

   1. Hey Alfie, they were 12¢ in the mid 60’s so inflation must have been slower back then. Even in our single digit years, we were smart enough to figure out that Devil Dogs at 5¢ apiece were a better buy for our hard-earned pop bottle money. You could buy two for the price of one cup cakes or twinkies and end up with more ounces of sugar and cake than anything that cost 12¢. With math in the schools in such shambles, I bet a lot of younger adults nowadays have a hard time figuring that one out! lol.

   2. I was always a moon pie girl. And, I was a purist… Chocolate Only (NOT the banana ones)! Five cents bought a moon pie that seemed almost as big as my head! 🙂

      1. NO ! Although I like chocolate, the BANANA Moon Pies are the BEST !
         But we can still be friends…

      2. LOL!

         Ok, I will be your friend. I will even buy you a Yoo-hoo! (You do like Yoohoos, don’t you? Please say yes.)

         1. A Yoo-Hoo and a Moon Pie were a huge treat for me when I was out and about with Dad as a kid, or a Moon Pie and a RC Cola.

            Have y’all ever had a Brownie Chocolate drink? I haven’t seen them in years, and it may have been a regional thing, but I liked them even better than Yoo-Hoo.

            1. I never have seen a Brownie Chocolate drink but it sounds pretty fabulous! I grew up in the swamps. We didn’t have a huge selection of items…

            2. Moon Pie and RC? Brownie Chocolate? You must be a Carolinian, either North or South. I remember a Brownie Chocolate being a Friday treat for me and my little brother when we got home from school. And sadly, I haven’t seen them in years either.

7. Quoting Glum from the Gulliver’s travels cartoon from the Banana Splits show, “We’re doomed, it’s hopeless, it’ll never work…” LOL

   “One step closer to heaven”

8. Hyper Inflation then Depression then a Global Monetary Reset will render fiat currency
   worthless including the Swiss Franc.

   Bitcoin is fools game. Always has been and always will be.

   Food,water,medicine,and precious metals are the very most important tangibles to stockpile. Pistol magazines are inedible.

   With what is coming any wealth preservation will depend on gold and silver.

   If you snooze you lose.

   1. Agreed… Bitcoin is potentially very problematic, no matter what the appearance in the present.

      Best suggestions…
      1) Reduce and eliminate debt. Live a debt free lifestyle. In the modern age, this seems difficult or impossible — and difficult it may be — but it is not impossible.
      2) Maintain a comfortable level of liquidity.
      3) Diversify your forms of savings.
      4) Develop sustainable means of production and renewable resources (a garden, for example).
      5) Create your own resource stockpile (food, medicine, clothing, shoes, tools, etc).
      6) Keep systems in good working order (your car, the appliances in your home, your HVAC unit, etc). If there is any kind of shortage (a shortage of funds, or a shortage of parts related to supply line issues), you’re in the stronger position if you aren’t facing loss of a particular utility — or the cost of repair or replacement.

      For many among us, this kind of thinking is built into our standard operations. For those who are new and still developing their preparedness plans, it may be especially helpful.

9. Yep, put my money into apple and pear,cherry,plum ect.. picked my first dividend check ahh bushel of early pears yesterday. Looks like apple and plum did well this year also.

   1. A most wonderful dividend, indeed…

   2. I see PIES in your future…a very wonderful future…

   3. The real deal. My kind of currency.

      Carry on in gracec

10. “Give glory to God for grantng you wisdom and discernment. And give yourself a pat on the back, folks. – JWR”

    Certainly I have been feeling the same way – but also, Jim – thanks to YOU for your hard work the past many years in helping US, the community here, hear that word of God and learn more and more quickly than we otherwise would have HOW to go about preparing – and making many fewer mistakes, saving money, and time and having the courage to follow our convictions, by way of your good example.

    1. “thanks to YOU for your hard work the past many years in helping US, the community here, hear that word of God and learn more and more quickly than we otherwise would have HOW to go about preparing – and making many fewer mistakes, saving money, and time and having the courage to follow our convictions, by way of your good example.”

       HEAR, HEAR!!

       Raising my glass to JWR, and to Lily, and in memory of the Memsahib too….we are all blessed to have this place!

    2. Huzzah to your comments, and to JWR, The Late Memsahib, Mrs. Avalanche Lily, and THIS COMMUNITY!
       God Bless this Nation and this community.
       Amen.

11. Though I certainly understand the advice to avoid debt – any time – I’m confused by advice to pay down debt now.

    It just seems to me that during a recession, cash is a lifeline

    Having cash on hand would seem to be the greatest source of security during a recession (okay – besides beans, bullets, and band-aids).  Shouldn’t I want to ensure I have enough cash on hand to keep a roof over my head and food on the table? Paying down debt just bleeds me of my cash reserve.

    My plan has been to continue making the minimum payments on all of my debts. Making additional payments to pay down the principal on debt seems non-essential – it bleeds cash that I won’t then have access to if my savings run dry and I don’t have enough income to pay my bills.

    Since most of the sages keep saying pay down debt – I’m wondering what I’m missing here. Any help?

    1. Hello, DeputyDan,

       Help is on the way. The go-to expert is Dave Ramsey. Here’s a link.

       A Proven Plan for Financial Success | DaveRamsey.com

       Best wishes, stay safe, and thank you for your service in these perilous times! Krissy

    2. Like may things in life, it’s complicated. If the world goes belly up your debt can hurt you. But to your point if you have assets that go up in value and you can turn those assets into legal tender to pay your debts then you are better off. But if the world goes belly up and no one wants your assets and therefore you can’t pay your debt a lawyer and a judge can put a lien on your assets and then come and take them from you. So my advice is “to neither a borrower or a lender be”. But that is not so easy so if you have debts AND can pay them off and be debt free while still maintaining some legal tender (or something that will go up in value in the event of a depression AND can easily be sold under those conditions) Then do it. If on the other hand it leaves you broke then do it more gradually and hope for the best. In the next depression money (or whatever passes as money) will be king. You want to have some. You want to have a lot of it. Make a plan that will get you there, Work your plan, reevaluate your plan. Repeat until you succeed.

    3. Hey DeputyDan,

       You are correct, most of the advice on debt must be rethought during times like these. Normally when our jobs were secure and we always knew we’d have a job to keep the money rolling in, the advice was to pay off your highest-interest debt first, making only minimal payments on the others, then when the first one is paid off, move on to the next highest interest debt. In good times or bad, you always need to have a base amount of savings for emergencies. With today’s unprecedented situation, and jobs being so insecure, I’d recommend having a much higher amount of money as my safety net than I would in the good old days of 2019. You are correct that you need enough money to keep food on the table and a roof over your head, but most people can cut their expenses way back if they really want to get out of debt badly enough. Quit smoking, cancel your cable, get the cheapest phone plan offered, stop spending money on entertainment, eat more beans and rice and less prepared food and other expensive grub. Stop making excuses on why you need a new car or the latest gizmos and suck it up to get those debts paid off as quickly as possible. Lower your standard of living so you become the most frugal guy in your neighborhood. There are few things in life as fine as not having a dime of debt and having your house paid off.

       And while probably not part of your question, I advise my kids to NOT pay down their mortgages. Instead, take that extra money every month and buy silver or at the very least, put it in the bank or in your sock drawer. There is no such thing as “getting ahead” on your mortgage. No matter how much extra you have paid each month, or for how many years, you’re still only three missed payments away from foreclosure. And in some states, the banksters don’t even have to return of your equity that you may have built up. A second reason for not paying down your mortgage is that in times like these when house values will be dropping in so many areas, the value of your house could drop so far that you basically lose all that extra equity you thought you were buying by making extra payments each month. Lots of people end up “upside down” on their mortgages meaning they owe more on their house than it is worth on the market after values drop. So I advise my kids, don’t pay down your mortgage. Save the extra money instead and when you can pay the mortgage off all at once, then it’s time to sell that silver or clean out all the cash in your sock drawer and head to the bankster who holds the mortgage.

       Best wishes to you in getting debt free.

       1. We recently retired and had only a few years left on the mortgage on our hobby farm, we had been prepping for decades and had an appropriately deep larder built up. Cash flow was ok thank to pensions, SS, savings, IRAs and military disability. Looking ahead we considered where we wanted to be in 10, 20 years. If we scrimped and saved we could have the house paid off and at our end the kids would inherit several hundred k and WE would have scrimped and saved all those years.
          However we would rather make small mortgage payments forever (~98 yo) and have assets available now for improvements at the home place. We want to improve it as a destination for extended family should that become necessary (and we enjoy being a respite for traveling missionaries). So we turned the remaining 30% we owed into a 30 year mortgage. We can do the monthly cash flow and now we have access to equity for tangibles.
          Maybe others would have done it differently, but it’s working for us.

    4. It’s true… Prioritization of financial goals can require adjustment in times of great uncertainty (and the times we’re in certainly qualify). At the same time, you may be able to look at your objectives across time as well, and to begin building the financial bridge from where you find yourself today to where you hope to be a year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now.

       Dave Ramsey is a great resource as Krissy suggested. Consumer advocate Clark Howard has quite a few resources and suggestions as well. …and St. Funogas makes excellent points re: the ability of most people to reduce their costs substantially.

       There is good news. Having opened the door to thinking carefully about your next financial steps, you will hopefully connect with others who can share their stories and offer ideas or resources to help you sort out your direction.

       One suggestion I heard many years ago was to take the smallest debt that could be paid off, and tackle that one first — regardless of interest rate. Once paid off, the funds used for the minimum payment on the debt-now-paid can be redirected to the next account. In so doing, the repayment process is accelerated. Of course — whether or not this works really depends on individual circumstances, the basket of debts including the amounts of those and the repayment terms, and more. It’s an idea at least worth considering — again, if everything else is stable.

       None of this comes without sacrifice, but don’t make financial stability through perilous times that sacrifice. I would join other voices who suggest that you maintain as solid and steady a foundation as you can while advancing your way toward debt free living.

       The fact that you’re thinking about this is a huge step in the right direction!

12. Hi Vicky,
    Gold, silver are inedible, too. Just like pistol magazines. But pistol magazines can inflate in value faster than metals. And if you need one and don’t have one, nothing else matters.
    In 2002, I bought my first Glock, a Model 22, from a police officer at work. His LE- Gov’t Use Only magazines were illegal for me to possess…..a felony. So I had to buy Clinton 10 round magazines….about $14.00 each at the time. I priced out pre-ban G22 magazines from various sources, the only ones I could legally own, and they sold for $188.00. Each. A couple of years later, “W” let the ban sunset, and I soon got a notice from Natchez Shooter Supply that they had a shipping container of Glock OEM, standard capacity magazines for sale. $13.00. I bought 60. At first. More later.
    My generous supply of TRW manufacture M14 magazines, for which i paid $3.98 each in 1985, soared to $150.00….if you could get them.
    My friend at work, who invested heavily in metals, crowed that his gold had doubled in the previous year (2005, I think). But I pointed out that lead had increased 400% during the same period. Since I have obscene investments in this strategic material in finished form, I actually did better than my friend. 7.62 NATO ammunition went from $150.00 per thousand to around $700.00 per thousand. Times 35,000., is……
    As late as 2012, after the Sandy Hook massacre, .22 Long Rifle ammo soared from $11.00 per 500 to as much as $250.00. Plus, it can be used to procure food, is readily divisible, and can keep losers off your back. And, if I may point out the obvious to our ethically challenged friends, with .22 Long Rifle ammunition, you can get all the gold, food, and other things you want. Until you run into someone who invested in pistol magazines along with metals, food, and medicine.
    I recommend all the things you did, but you might want to include those pistol magazines in the portfolio as well.
    Over the years since the W and O era, I continued to invest heavily in magazines of all sorts, as Jim has wisely advised. But I also have many tons of long term foods, socks, shoes, alternative power, alternative water sources, and so much more. My vehicles are 20 years old because I just fix them and invest for the future. I can get all the new ones I want later on, probably for a sack of rice.

    1. PMs are not for everyone. You should buy PMs with money you do not need. If you do that then PMs can be a good long term investment. Not every calamity will make magazines and ammo double or quadruple in value. The trick is to have food and a way to grow it. To have ammo. to have some of the strategic and important things and THEN to have PMs. If the coming SHTF is anarchy then you will need the ammo. If it is another great depression you may not need the ammo but food is good and money/PMs is better. Many millionaires were made during the great depression because they had hard cash to buy fire sale assets. Nobody would have given you even an apple for a pistol magazine.

       1. Hi One Guy,
          The 1930s were a different time and culture. FDR didn’t debauched the dollar, like the government is doing now. Crime actually decreased during the depression. Most were God-fearing people. So small arms didn’t assume as much importance then.
          No crisis had arisen to cause ammunition to soar in value, other than supply and demand, and debasement of the dollar.
          This will change radically the day you can’t get it. Six months later, name your price. I’m referring to severe conditions, not minor economic blips such as Covid.
          The electricity is on, groceries in the stores, gas at the local stations. We’re still on easy street. Clean water gushes out of your faucet.
          One trend I see is that determined, armed store owners still have their businesses. The unarmed, in affected areas, do not. I’d bet Korea Town in Los Angeles today has not seen any looting or arson in this go-around. Same model seen in Ferguson, MO, an area I once lived in.

          Stay safe.

          1. You are making an either/or argument. Fine, if you have little money buy ammo. Your choice. My point is to try to acquire all the things that you might need AND buy PMs. We are past due for and flirting with some sort of economic reset. It will happen but no one can predict when or how bad. When it does and no one comes to your door in the middle of the night so you can shoot at them, maybe then you will see the value of PMs.

             1. Hi One Guy,
                Point made. However, I see people shot dead in broad daylight, and we’re not even in the interesting chapters yet.i live in a city, AND the desert. Either way, we don’t shoot people who come to our door. Authorities frown on that. I read my state’s criminal code at least once a year.
                I have a diverse portfolio with antibiotics (so I’m not out looking for them), energy in the form of petrol, solar, diesel, wind. Spare critical parts. Food. Soap. Consumables for firearms. Alternative water in endless amounts. Like minded friends with diverse skills. PMs.
                I’m not knocking PMs. They have their place, for sure. I’m advocating that when people identify a critical need, stock up on that item. Antibiotics are but one example. I stock 8 families of them in bulk. That bladder infection that today is a routine annoyance? It just may kill your loved one without an antibiotic. HAVE them.
                Keep your teeth in good shape, you never know when you’ll find yourself without the ability to get first world dental care, no matter how much wealth you have. I’ll bet Venezuelan dental care is first rate. Not.
                Need a med every day? Buy as far ahead as you can afford.
                Diversify!

    2. Paul: Consider this.You need a loaf of bread or an antibiotic. You find someone willing to
       sell what you need but there is a problem. The seller is a Colt or Beretta fan and has
       no use for Sig or Glock products. But wait! You happen to have a 1/10th ounce gold
       coin or a few pre-64 U.S coins.

       The point is gold and silver have never been worth zero. Everyone recognizes the
       value and will sell you what you need. Not so with any other sale or barter item.

       For five thousand years gold has out performed all fiat currencies.That is a fact.

       Take a look at Lynette Zang at ITM Trading. You’ll be glad that you did.

       1. Vicki,
          To the right person, small denomination gold or silver might work for transactions assuming others will accept it.
          I might not be interested at all in currency, but would welcome diesel fuel, fresh gasoline, or antibiotics …though I have plenty of that.
          Nearly everyone has a .22 caliber firearm around, or knows someone who does. I knew of a woman who survived WWII in Germany and the brutal post-war period. Both her and her sister were too young to sell themselves and had to steal everything they ate. Once established in America, the bought a brick of .22s a month until she had a mountain of it. She said that .22s were as good as money, no matter how bad things got.
          In courses I help teach, Glocks are used by about 95% of students and about 75% of the LE market. I have to bring examples of 1911s, revolvers, SIGs to the classes so that battlefield pickup drills don’t just mean every student shooting every other student’s Glock. Revolvers are so distant from the mainstream that we had to hold a 5 minute impromptu mini course on how to operate and load them. This was caused by my own daughter’s inability to reload a revolver during the exercise! I felt like a heel, failing to teach this skill to my youngest.
          Even if you don’t own a pistol, a few 9mm and .40S&W Glock magazines in your barter ladder wouldn’t be a bad idea. Common ammunition, same-same.
          That gun stuff you’re cleaning out after grandpa has passed on? Save it. The future promises to be interesting.
          I believe Brigham Young’s prediction that a bushel of wheat will oneday be worth a bushel of gold.
          Read The 900 Days, about the siege of Leningrad during WWII. A million Russians were starved to death there, and the survivors didn’t look much better. You’d be AMAZED at what people can and will eat. Gold was worthless there. Losing your ration card was a death sentence. Citizens received 500 calories each day, when the city managed to receive enough supplies over frozen lake Ladoga.
          Metals will serve to preserve wealth beyond a national crisis, but may pale to food and meds during it.
          I remember Warren Buffet bragging his wealth and disdain for security on a Sunday, about his home in Nebraska that he bought when he was 20-something. By Tuesday, he and Mrs. Buffet found themselves face-down on their floor with guns in their ears while robbers shoveled up an “undisclosed” amount of cash. They were lucky to live through it. They arranged heavy, armed security the next day.
          You are wise to have such investments. If you haven’t already, consider a diversified portfolio. You can’t have too much food, etc.

    3. Our vehicles are 20 years old too, one with over 600K miles. And guess what… they’re STILL paid for. Just fix as needed. BTW, original transmission on the one with 600K. NOT the original motor… had to replace that about 100K ago. I would never consider buying another new car again.

       Glad we stocked up on ammo when we did… it is outrageous now, if you can even find it.

    4. Yes! Remember that old advertisement “Pork, the other white meat”.

       Well how about this slogan: “Lead, the other precious metal!” 🙂

       I can imagine nothing more soul crushing than running out of ammo when you need it. As long as you can fight, you still have hope.

13. Gentle Vickie: While one should never eat a spare magazine, it has value in trade for something to eat. Or when casting about for a spare magazine to replace the one you lost by accident. Armaments and their associated accouterments are sometimes irreplaceable, especially when you’re accosted by hostiles with bad intent. I think there are a few, (not Vickie) here who completely underestimate our oppositions’ low value on human life when one is between them and their gratification. In fact, there are many of these who will kill people for no reason at all. I believe in JWR’s admonition to have plenty of spares, and over time, such pursuits are rather easy. One can stock them like you do extra food, a bit at a time, regularly, and find yourself comfortable. Talking about eating magazines gives me indigestion.

14. In 1912, the year 1, BTF (before the Fed), you could by a fully equipped (lights, horn, and the top), top of the line, Ford touring car for $800. That would be 40, $20 gold pieces. Today, 2020, the year 107,ATF (after the Fed), those same 40, $20 gold pieces will buy you a fully equipped Lincoln Aviator, or maybe even a Lincoln Navigator. The value, purchasing power of those dollars has gone way down. The relative value, or purchasing power, of gold has gone way up.

Comments are closed.