E-Mail 'Black Powder for Self-Reliance - Part 2, by M.B.' To A Friend

19 Comments

1. A couple of hints on making Black powder. I use a sheet of glass for a mixing surface as it is easier to clean as well as an end off of a silicone cake mixing spatula which also work s well for the corning process.

2. Thank you for sharing this wisdom. The idea of having the option to utilize black powder and saving irreplaceable ammo caught my interest.

3. Worked for a Fortune 500 defense contractor for 30 years with about 500 employees, about 10% of which hunted big game. This offered some offhand perspective on gear and success. The choice of rifle calibers in this group ran the full gamut, from .243 Win to .338 Win Mag, including the common (boring) .308 and .30-06. Opinions on what what needed to kill deer and elk were varied and sometimes got heated. My observations, added to the collective experience of my co workers was this: The skill of the hunter made a lot more difference than the caliber of rifle he carried. The most successful elk hunter at work got his elk every year, and he used a plain vanilla, Savage Model 99 in .308 Win. with a 4X scope.
   My own use of the same caliber and autopsies performed on large mule deer shot with it convinced me that getting shot with a center fire rifle was something to be avoided.
   There is a point in all of this, and that is, standardizing on a very few calibers enables one to A) save a lot of money on ammunition, and B) acquire meaningful amounts of it so that shortages have little to no impact on your ability to hunt or handle whatever history comes your way.
   Price out 1000 rounds of say, 7mm Remington Magnum. Ouch! Price out 1000 rounds of 7.62 NATO from ammoman.com or any of the on-line distributors. Huge difference, right? Once-fired military 7.62 NATO hulls are a tiny fraction of the cost of bulk commercial rifle brass in almost any flavor. I once bought a 55 gallon drum of 7.62 brass for about $350 from a military surplus store. [My 3/4 ton van rode smooth all the way home] I couldn’t buy 1,000 commercial cases in any caliber for that price.
   This article, to me, reinforces the concept of archiving the modern propellents and other components you need to support your firearms in perpetuity. It’s OK to die of old age and leave ammunition/components to your progeny.
   Making black powder is a long and detailed process…..you can pretty much forget making smokeless propellents at home. There is NO WAY you can come close to the quality controls available to the folks at DuPont, Alliant, Hogdon, etc. Propellents store for many decades, and I’ve used 40 year old H4831 and H4895 with excellent results. Mil-Surplus 7.62 NATO ammunition might not win any bench rest contests, but it will still serve well enough for serious purposes long after you are in the rest home.
   The more I hunted with my .308 rifle, the faster I jettisoned all the silly “must-have” commercial calibers in my armory. i have almost a dozen rifles over .223/5.56 caliber, and they’re all in 7.62 or .308. Simplifies logistics. Your requirements may vary if you live around Grizzlies or Brown bears. And no, I’m not biting on the 6.5 Cred. That would entail a whole new round of expenditure for another caliber, components, etc.
   The bottom line….stock propellents in bulk so you won’t be making your own.
   Did I mention primers?

   1. My thought as well. .308/30-06 will serve you well for defense/hunting etc. I have 8mm Mauser as well. A well fed k98 or derivitive will probably be in the hands of the last man alive after the apocalypse (should that scenario unfold). I like to check out local pawn stores for components as well. Bought some Speer soft point .308 180g bullets for a song recently. Shoots well in both .308 and 30.06. Purchased unopened 1lb HP-38 recently for $4.00. Happy shopping! 🙂

      1. Jason…

         The K98 is a stout and proven system. I once owned a Yugo K98 clone and a quantity of 8×57 fodder for it. Getting modern stocks of ammunition for it proved impossible so I passed it to a friend. I do have a restored Garand in original flavor that i adore. But alas only have about 3K rounds for it. It’s sort of a trunk gun when I have to travel to occupied states. If you hand load for your Mauser it will serve you well forever.
         I neglected to mention that powder of any sort should always be purchased in bulk lots when possible so that the lot numbers will be the same. Humidity and density varies from one lot to another and will shift charge weights in the measure when a new lot is used. Always verify charge weights when changing lots. Twin 8 pounders are good, larger containers, better. Just over-reach when deciding how much you should have on the shelf as a hedge against unscheduled events. I’ve never felt bad about having too much inventory. When the Left boasts of ammo bans, etc, I floss my teeth and smile.
         Apply similar logic to beans, rice, soap, shoes, socks, etc.
         Any of the great battle cartridges will do double duty, just try to standardize and simplify so you can shoot enough to maintain skills.
         A while back, I found a shipment of Soviet M44 calvary carbines, new condition, some from the Tula arsenal. War production, so they were rough, but the price was right and I bought three of them for around $150 each. Now, they’re much more than that, but they are sturdy, short, and the sights were all regulated. I passed it around with my friends during a desert shoot and they all easily hit the 300 meter steel, nearly every time with recent Polish service loads. And hey, the folding cruciform bayonets might be good for picking up trash on the lawn. 7.62x54R is plentiful and cheap…or was. A good steel cored round costs less than a bullet. Reloading for it makes little sense. Not as smooth as a Mauser, though.

4. Other than buying from a store, sulphur appears to be sourced from volcanic regions.

   Does anyone know of another natural source?

5. This reminds me of a part of Cormac McCarthy’s historical apocalyptia novel “Blood Meridian” where the Judge whips up a batch of black powder atop an extinct volcano out of bat guano, brimstone, charcoal and urine.

   Come to think of it, there is a lot in that book that might be of interest to y’all.

6. As Paul and Vagus point out, making black powder as firearms propellant is a waste of time unless you have a sustainable source for sulphur. When the stores are gone and you can’t buy cartridges or smokeless powder, you won’t be able to buy sulphur, either.

   For use as a blasting agent where alternatives are regulated into unavailability, but S is available, it may make some sense.

7. Good evening.

   I`m a german.

   I heard the best charcoal is made of Rhamnus frangula, wich is called buckthorn in english i suppose.
   This tree is named ,,Pulverholz” or ,,Schießbeere”, wich means ,,Powderwood” or ,,shooting berrie”.

   Those names are very old and i think, this is a strong note for its early use.

   I dont know why its probably the best wood for blackpowdercharcoal, perhaps because of the very little ashes that remain during the process of making charcoal.

   Excuse my english.

   Best regards

8. It would take awhile to use up all my components, yet it could happen. BP is serious alternative. The topic has rekindled my interest in developing alternative ways. For example, what I got left of FFFg , I read could be used in .30-06 with at 150 grain SP for respectable deer load at 2,400+. About 58 to 60 grains from what I read. It’s like IMR 4381, but a whole lot slower. Just fill up an .30-06 case, and maximum pressures will not be exceeded . Same goes with Trailboss, but 14 to 16 grain is the sweet spot for .30-06. 19 grains is a full case, but do not compress Trailboss. Like BP, one can load it up by volume and be safe. With BP just be sure to fill up the case and slightly compress it, or use filler to remove the air. However fillers can create other problems….

   These are easy to use powers when one has nothing else, and little else to reload with. We could use Trailboss for reduced varmint rounds, or BP for deer if the case is large enough as it is with .30-06. In .308 Win, I would imagine that the case is too small to running a standard cup and core SP fast enough to expand it using a full load of FFFg. But knowing that, there are other modern bullets that will expand reliably down to 1600 fps, making BP useful in that and other cartridges. Nosler BT, 125 to 165 grainers will expand at low velocities. And so will Hornady’s SST, AMAX or VMAX. Or use a flat or round nose bullet designed for the slow speeds of a .30-30. Heck, load BP in the .30-30. .30 caliber bullets can be used in a HUGE variety cartridges. Give me all most any .30 caliber bullet and BP, and wide variety of rifles could be kept in action.

   Even if we cannot make BP, we can lean how to use available resources and improvise. I will also save this and all information that could be used in the future. If I cannot use it, perhaps someone else can. This good SOP for anything like this. Having information that will help us understanding how one can use red dot, Unique, IMR 4198, IMR SR 4759, 4227, and all the ‘odd’ powders that few has a use for, if knowledgeable, these powder can be used effectively. Red Dot, can be used in .30-06, 9mm, and 12 GA, and many others. IMR 4895 can be use for accurate loads in most center fire rifle cartridges. Finding out the different ways one can use the components on their shelf, can greatly improve that ways one can make a firearm work. Learning how to conserve components is also helpful. Why use a maximum pressure load, when a mild load, or even a reduced load can work? And the brass will last much longer. Use only enough powder to get the job done. Of course primers are essential to all all of this, and are difficult to make. Having an excess of primers is a good idea.

   There are so many different ways to utilize available component to make some thing go ‘bang’. One of the reasons to use common caliber ammunition is because there is also more technical information available. I like .30-06 because there generations of reloaders who have experimented and shared their experience. They learned how to make the only rifle they owned during the Great Depression continue to put meat on the table using out of the box thinking and improvisation. The old ’06 is the most versatile cartridge on the planet as a result good for mouse to moose. We have easy access to this experience. There is tons of load data for .30-06., including loads for FFg, and FFFg.

   There is so much that could be said on this topic. Black Powder is good stuff. It can be useful in modern guns, and well as flintlocks, cannon or whatever! If I find BP some for sale anywhere, and the price is right, I will grab it. Even FFFFg is useful. Powder can be stored for decades. Only if starts to smell a little like ammonia would I consider it to be bad. Thanks for this fine article. My other passion is reloading, and you opened up the door for my continued and increased appreciation of BP.

9. Sulfur is NOT mandatory!

   When the British were developing a spark-sensitive priming charge that was compatible with cordite, they found sulfur cause problems, so they developed sulfur-free gunpowder: just potassium nitrate and charcoal. Details are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder#Sulfur-free_gunpowder

   The main thing about sulfur is that it makes the powder easier to ignite. This would be very important to flintlock users, but I don’t know if it matters with a percussion cap. Right now, you can buy garden sulfur cheap, and it has a pretty much unlimited shelf life (plus it is useful in the garden), so why not just stock up on the only really hard-to-get ingredient? Don’t forget the sulfur is also just 10% of the mix, by weight. A little goes a long way: that 1 pound bottle of Lilly Miller can be used to make about 10 pounds of black powder.

   I’d like to try the British formula sometime, just to see if performance suffers much.

   The main benefit of black powder is:
   – Components are available when ammo Is banned or the shelves are cleaned out by panic buying.

   A secondary benefit should not be overlooked:
   – Best propellant for older firearms, if you can’t find the mfg. date. Black powder can be used safely in some cases where the pressure curves of smokeless could damage a gun.

10. You can substitute iron oxide for sulfur, but it won’t work quite as well – will need more powder for the same “oomph”. Knew a guy that had an old rusty cast iron skillet that he used to scrape the rust off and use it to make small amounts of powder as a parlor trick.

    This fireworks-related site says you can just use potassium nitrate and charcoal, without sulfur, if you modify your method (have never done it or seen it):

    https://pyrodata.com/definitions/Black-Powder-Sulphurless

11. It’s much safer to mill the components separately than mill them together. And do not use lead balls! They will shed lead powder into the mix.

    Always be ready for spontaneous ignition! I had a batch do that while following instructions in the Improvised Munitions field manual. I had just granulated the powder and left it to dry. It went just after I took a step away.

    Compost piles are good sources of potassium nitrate, if you know how to make it.

    1. > And do not use lead balls! They will shed lead powder into the mix.

       What do you recommend?

    2. Please handle/ store safely, seperate containers(surplus ammo cans are excellent),limited ammount containers(1-2 lbs,8 lbs or larger really require a proper magazine(covered with blast provisions),chemical/fire cabinet(you should have one already if you store flammables(paint thinner/turp,coleman fuel,naptha,solvents etc),best stored outside living area(detached garage,shed not basement if possible Murphy Rules),stable temperature if possible,lower humidity if possible. If you were at a Ammo Supply Point think of how it was handled and why and don’t learn the hard way(you don’t get a second chance or a open casket(if there is enough left))
       What is recommended for the ball mill? Copper? Brass?

12. This is a serious question (in case it appears humorous). Since this looks rather complicated (for me anyway), and since this is per the many comments as substitute in some respects due to an ammo shortage, what amount of actual ammo in your 2-3 most favorable calibers (along the lines of JWR defense recommendations of basically 22LR, 9mm, misc shot gun shells, and then one long bolt rifle of choice for game hunting) – given that we all can live to 100 (just a guess), it’s there some amount of ammo stock pile per person that would be plenty acceptable for a rainy day balancing future defense plus practice/training and hunting especially if one assumes plain vanilla reloading for FMJ target practice rounds ? Would you base this on how much you can afford or the shelf life of the ammo or the storage space required ?

13. I agree with T.R. Although this article is good to know, it shows the many dangers and down falls of this. One of my older friends recently died and I inherited his powder collection, many, many cans of BP, but also many cans of older powders that T.R. mentioned that were commonly used in the 1980s and before. It is important to have early reloading manuals that show that powder. Fortunately, I have been reloading since the late 1970s, so have a lot of older manuals. The newer manuals often omit these older powders. If you are going to reload, and count on that in the future, be sure to have not only components, but manuals that show the powders of yesteryear, since you may come across them, even if you don’t stock them yourself.

14. When I was a kid making BP was a rite of passage. YouTube is now taking down these videos. I imagine a school would turn a kid in to the police if caught researching the subject.

    There is sulfur all around you if you know where to look. Let me give you just one example – car batteries. Of course it would take some doing to extract the sulfur from the sulfuric acid electrolyte, but it is indeed there. A couple of weeks ago, an article here addressed the field of chemistry. You need to reason it out for yourself.

    I wouldn’t shy away from using lead balls – just use common sense and don’t snort or eat your BP when you are finished!

    BP has MANY more uses than for reloading purposes.

15. Another source of sulphur is around oil production processing equipment. Various locations around Wyoming have had mounds of sulphur sitting as products of de-sulphuring petroleum.

Comments are closed.