The Survivalist’s Odds ‘n Sods:

38 Comments

1. re:
   “…stopped we don’t know what from happening…” (according to spokesmodel)

   And who can argue with logic like that.

   [ shakes head, chuckling ]

2. Concerning euthanasia, as someone who was an RN for many years in the ER and ICU and a Christian I firmly believe in quality over quantity of life. I have seen many people suffer through horrible combinations of terminal illnesses and even when their bodies and spirits attempted to quit doctors intervened to keep them going a few more hours or days. Granted I’m not talking about blindness, deafness or incontinence but the article says those people where ages 60-89. Seriously though, if you couldn’t communicate and spent your days laying in a bed urinating and defecating on yourself would you not rather just go to sleep. It’s not about your contribution, it’s about your suffering and the incredible demand you would place on your loved ones. I’ve always wondered why Christians were the ones most afraid to go. There are so many people in nursing homes and other facilities right now that cannot function on any real level because their awareness is gone and their bodies are so twisted and contorted that any movement is painful and confusing. If you think it’s humane or godly to continue to keep these people on a tube feeding merely so they will be “alive”, then we strongly disagree. It’s not that god isn’t ready to take them, it’s that man constantly interferes. If you turned off the meds these people would die in a few days, shortening their suffering with euthanasia is far more humane in my opinion.

   1. Thou shalt not kill. Which means murder of the innocent.

      God is concerned with suffering, but far more concerned with sin. Murder is sin. Suicide is sin. Dying on a cross is no fun at all. Especially after most of your skin has been ripped off. Many, many Christians have died on literal crosses over the centuries. I saw an early 20th century Turkish photo of some Armenians who were hanging dead on crosses. All of them were pretty young girls, and naked. You don’t have to ask.

      Jesus said “If you would be my disciple, pick up your cross every day and follow Me.” The every day part means whatever happens to you in life. Christians don’t stay alive out of fear of death. They stay alive out of obedience to God.

      The word “god” is spelled with a capital “G” when it refers to a Person, which in your post, it does.

      It sounds like fear of suffering is your god.

      I once knew a nurse who felt the same way you do. She acted on her feelings. Some of her patients died a few days earlier than expected.

      1. Well said, though I would have used the word “murder”. It is not up to us to end the life of another human because it is an inconvenience to us. They are not a dog or a horse that we put away when “we” are done with them. All children are a gift to be treasured and my wedding vows said nothing about loving till I decided she inconvenienced me. As to the elderly, I’ve also dealt with those who have mental instability and depression. Those who suffer from this don’t always think straight. What makes sense to them is not necessarily the right or ethical thing to do. Life is sacred.

         1. Dear Hugh

            I’m wondering if an article dealing with euthanasia and Christian moral concepts would be beneficial for your readers. It is going to be an issue in extreme times for many people, and it is better to be prepared spiritually and intellectually.

            There is a blogger who might be willing to do an article for you who is very well qualified in every respect. I believe he has written an article for Survivalblog in the past, although his name was not given. He’s in enough trouble already, and seems to have been permanently sidelined by the Catholic hierarchy. JWR would know; I think it was before you came aboard.

            His name is Fr. Zuhlsdorf, and he writes Fr. Z’s Blog, which is one of the most popular traditional Catholic sites on the web. Differences in Reformed vs. Catholic theology should not be relevant in the issue of euthanasia.

            If you think that an article of this kind could benefit your readers, you might take a look at his site and see what you think of his writing. Since I am reasonably certain that the previous article was by him (not many Catholic priests write about guns; he does), he may be willing to write another.

            Warmly
            Janet W

            1. @Janet,
               Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing:

               Def: eu·tha·na·sia (yo͞oTHəˈnāZH(ē)ə), noun, the painless killing of a patient suffering from an incurable and painful disease or in an irreversible coma.

               Nope. There can be no euthanasia in Christian morality based upon biblical ethics. To claim otherwise is to secularize Christianity and compromise it.

               Note that I am not talking about DNR orders. Withholding sustenance after you have started giving it is also a very difficult area that I prefer to stay well clear of. I personally see that as very black and white. I’m also aware that many modern dictionaries confuse the two concepts. Not resuscitating a person who has a DNR, or removing sustenance from a brain-dead person is not the same thing as the mercy killing of someone who is ill or in a coma.

            2. Hi Hugh. Yes, we are talking about the same thing. My sentence was unclear. Why euthanasia is utterly opposed to Christian moral concepts would be more accurate.

               And the definition is misleading. Painless killing? Not necessarily. Incurable? That changes all the time. Irreversible coma? Lots of oops on that one.

               There is a huge amount of lying by omission in the medical profession. If withholding sustenance and hydration were painless, then why do they give their dying patients morphine? Which they do. Death by starvation and thirst is agonizing. This is never mentioned to the patient, the family, or the public. And once the papers are signed, it is too late.

               Fr. Z would cover this is much more thorough and intelligent detail, which is why I suggested your considering an article by him. if I remember correctly, the one he wrote for SB in the past was on the Christian morality of killing people, and it was excellent.

               Also, the history of using brain death as a criterion for death is historically new. it had always been heart stoppage. The reason for the change was the development of heart transplants. A transplanted heart must still be beating at the time it is taken. So…brain death. Of course, one problem with that is that the heart cannot be beating if the brain is really dead. So…partial brain death.

               This has its problems. Every now and then, someone wakes up just before their organs are about to be removed. And the stories of long term coma patients who wake up are legion. The people who decide whether or not you are brain dead have a huge financial stake in deciding that the answer is yes if there are potential transplants involved.

               I do think an article would help. What do you do when your little girl is dying of radiation poisoning? Or your son has a severe abdominal wound, and you have no antibiotics? It needs to be thought out ahead of time.

            3. We will, of course, consider any article written for the blog.

               I suspect that the issue will not be as great in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation. The difficulties today in the decision making is caused by the extraordinary measures, procedures, and equipment that we have developed to prolong life. In a collapse of society, those just simply won’t be available. The difficult decisions are now. In a long, slow collapse, like we are seeing now, we are faced with those difficulties. In a fast collapse and the aftermath, probably not.

      2. Couple of things. One, if in someway you’re trying to insinuate that I would ever end a patients life on my own accord then you are so far out of the ballpark that we could not even hold a decent conversation. I assure you I have saved more lives than you ever will. Secondly, Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for our sins so we do not have too. If you think his suffering wasn’t enough to cleanse your sins then by all means belittle his sacrifice with your own suffering. Additionally, I’m not talking about people who require some extra help or even people who may be totally dependent but still do have some quality of life. I’m talking about people who are beyond any hope of recovery or any form of quality. Obviously you’ve never seen what I have. Most of these people are only alive because doctors can keep you physically alive well past reason. A 100 years ago they would have expired naturally. Perhaps you think this discussion was about putting someone down because they are a bother, again you would be totally out of the ballpark. As far as God being capitalized, if you can’t even comprehend a typo I don’t know what else to say to you. Perhaps as a Christian, which I’m sure you claim to be, you should be a little more forgiving and not make unfounded accusations about nurses. Gossip is the devil’s tool as far as I know.

   2. Jesus suffered. Should He have been euthanized on the Cross?

      1. Was that not what the spear in his side was supposed to accomplish?

         1. No.

   3. I think JL’s comments are food for thought. No, I do not advocate euthanasia! But I also see peoples’ lives and suffering being needlessly prolonged regularly. In our “modern” medical establishment, don’t think for a second that some doctors are not encouraged maximize their hospital’s revenue by ordering tests and procedures that will not change anything for the patient. There is a financial incentive to order as many tests and procedures as the government’s fraud detectors will allow.
      I do not believe it is murder to let someone pass away naturally before the system has a chance to bleed every possible cent from their family, their insurance company and the Medicare system.
      The most honest thing we can do while we still have our faculties intact is to consider filing DNR/DNI paperwork with our regular caregivers, and inform our loved ones of our wishes to leave this life when it is our time.
      Once again, I think ACTIVELY ending a person’s life is wrong, but using them as a teaching resource or a source of revenue for a corporation is just as evil.

   4. JL I agree with you. I’ve been a paramedic for 13 years and before that I was in the body removal business. I think too often people that don’t really understand what the reality of the situations are like are too quick to judge and fear monger. Just keeping the remains of someone functioning to me is not life it is really an abomination. Considering the ever increasing amounts of resources that it takes just to keep one person’s body functioning this subject will just keep coming up. I would be interested to see what happens when non-euthonasia people choose between keeping their mother “alive” for a few hopeless weeks versus complete financial ruin and not having enough to care for their children.

      PS I also really enjoyed the spear comment.

   5. I agree that extreme methods of medically prolonging life do not have to be used, unless the patient wants them.

      Antibiotics are not extreme. Neither are food and water, however provided.

      However, advance paperwork can be very dicey. There are all kinds of contingencies that may not have occurred to you. Having been through the paperwork twice, in two different settings, my experience was that the people and institutions were casually pro-death. With the best of intentions.

      It is a good idea to read up on the drawbacks of pre-written decisions. They do have their place, but should be very limited.

   6. As a stage 4 cancer patient with an incurable cancer, I will say this; I DON”T WANT ANYONE TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR ME! I am fortunate that the cancer I have is generally slow in doing it’s job, and I am receiving the best palliative care (in my opinion,) by my doctors so we are talking years (hopefully,) before it gets me. When I found out 2 years ago, my wife relented and we bought a (very) fixer upper on 28 acres and we began building a multi generational homestead. That’s my therapy. Every day is precious, and some days just suck due to the cancer or just my being down. But every day still counts and I intend to use every one of them I can. But the state making the decision for someone with no recourse is simply murder.

      That being said, if/when the time comes that all I am doing is lying there, in whatever condition that life cannot go on, I want it to be my decision and on my terms. When the strength fails me, I’ll make my own decision on how I go out. And while controversial, I understand that some people will disagree with that. And I respect their opinion wholeheartedly. I will follow the MDMP, come up with my 3 COA’s and move out and draw fire. That procedure has given me one heck of a life so far, don’t see how it will fail me at the end.

   7. If you made a animal suffer like that you would be jailed and punished for the rest of your life

   8. Beware the slippery slope:
      Wikipedia =The phrase “life unworthy of life” (in German: “Lebensunwertes Leben”) was a Nazi designation for the segments of the populace which, according to the Nazi regime of the time, had no right to live. Those individuals were targeted to be euthanized by the state, usually through the compulsion or deception of their caretakers. The term included people with serious medical problems and those considered grossly inferior according to the racial policy of Nazi Germany. This concept formed an important component of the ideology of Nazism and eventually helped lead to the Holocaust.[1] It is similar to but more restrictive than the concept of “Untermensch”, subhumans, as not all “subhumans” were considered unworthy of life (Slavs, for instance, were deemed useful for slave labor).

      The euthanasia program was officially adopted in 1939 and came through the personal decision of Adolf Hitler. It grew in extent and scope from Action T4 ending officially in 1941 when public protests stopped the program, through the Action 14f13 against concentration camp inmates. The euthanasia of people with disabilities continued more discreetly until the end of World War II. The methods used initially at German hospitals such as lethal injections and bottled gas poisoning were expanded to form the basis for the creation of extermination camps where the gas chambers were built from scratch to conduct the extermination of the Jews, Poles, and Romani.[2][3][4]

3. Re: Dads and daughters: My father was very masculine without being “macho.” He taught us all (two daughters and a son) to be confident and go for the best we could in education, career and home life. He taught us to take responsibility for our actions and not make excuses for our own decisions. He taught all three of us to shoot, ride horseback and maintain our cars and homes. He encouraged our education and military service (all earned BA or better, two of us had military careers). Mother taught us many things, but Dad taught us how to live a fulfilling, productive life. Dads do teach their daughters much, as long as they treat all their children as capable people. Had I only had a mother, my life would have been very different — fewer adventures and less earning power.

4. First a disclaimer for what I will say next. I don’t know it to be true nor would I argue stridently with anyone who disagrees. I claim no definitive proof or special knowledge.

   Due to Trump Derangement Syndrome and some other observations I am coming to the conclusion that there has been for decades a large degree of sabotage wthin the power brokers of our nation. I think it has been very pervasive. I think it ranges from our inability to come to the table with North Korea for some 60 years (and Trump doing it in less than two) to the TPP (which I think was more of the reason for the Establishment’s opposition to Trump than is talked about).

   I think many on the right and old left have been speaking of these things for years. People from Birchers to Lyndon Larouche in varying degrees of accuracy. I am not convinced anyone has the story right but many have had the essence of the story for years.

   I think Trump is an outsider. I could be proven wrong. I think he is outside the “system” although again I could proven wrong. I think this is very dangerous to him and the country as a whole. I think we are in fact at war right now.

   If Trump succeeds I think the country and world could be completely transformed for the better. I now question so much of the 20th Century. Pat Buchanan’s writings reflect much of what I am speaking of although I do not claim he or anyone else has the 100% picture.

   1. JBH, I do not necessarily disagree with what you wrote. I can say, with a reasonably high level of confidence that to the power brokers, the world is a game. That means, winners and losers and also rules. Rules of which favor those who understand them and play the game. Which automatically leaves people out who do not understand that a game is even being played.

      One thing I noticed between Obama getting elected and then Trump, is Obama’s term, there was a lot of news focused the rise of the right wing prepper. Then, when Trump was elected, news started focusing on the left wing prepper. I thought that was interesting when we think of a game being played.

5. Related news from Gainesville, FL,

   Florida Carry suing the City of Gainesville
   Posted: Thu 6:55 PM, Jul 19, 2018
   http://www.wcjb.com/content/news/FLORIDA-CARRY-SUING-CITY-OF-GAINESVILLE-488671801.html

   “A non-profit organization called Florida Carry is suing the city of Gainesville because of specified “No gun zones” during the Richard Spencer event last year.”

6. RE: Euthanasia I don’t think anyone should be “put down” for convience sake, but I for one do not want to lay in a bed while my body rots away and machines breathe for me, there is a form called a “Living Will” that you can fill out stating that your final wishes be carried out even if you are incapacitated. You can choose if you want or don’t want feeding tubes, breathing machines, CPR etc. I think everyone should get these forms, talk to your families and your doctor and CHOOSE what you want done. If the Lord wants me I’m ready, if he chooses to have me linger then the lack of machinery or human intervention won’t effect it. I heard of a woman who was taken off life support and lived for 2 years with no machines. This is just my opinion.

   1. VCC, this is what I was trying to convey. I wasn’t condoning going around and putting people down because someone decided their inconvenient. But I’ve seen so many lives artificially prolonged that it disturbs me. Not only as was mentioned for financial benefits to the medical facility but I have literally had famiIies keep a “loved one” alive to collect their monthly check. In
      addition to the living will, have a discussion with your spouse or next of kin and really explain to them what your wishes are. It’s my personal choice that I don’t ever want to be a burden to my family.

7. Concerning WATCH YOUR SIX (and in general), sometimes it’s best to keep shut about your likes and dislikes. If you can’t then best you hold the high ground with a clear field of fire.

   1. What Harry said.

8. The euthanasia story reminds me of Soylent Green. Won’t be long now and the scoops will be coming.

   1. I want my full 20 minutes. Then I can go home.

9. Likely off topic but I feel the need to rant…
   1)I would have no problem giving up my personal defense weapon if the government could GUARANTEE that neither I, nor anyone else, would come to harm by any assailant with any weapon. But THEY CAN’t, so I WON’T.
   2)We see daily news stories about crimes committed with guns and, to a much lesser extent, people using guns to protect themselves and others. This fuels the ‘gun ban movement’. I’d like to see one of these ‘news’ agencies provide a daily table of deaths by various means: guns, knives, cars, bludgeoning, drugs, etc. Guns are NOT the problem.
   3) News organizations are in business to MAKE MONEY, and not to PROVIDE THE WHOLE TRUTH. The more subscribers/listeners they have, the more money they make. I just don’t trust any of them any more.
   Not sure I feel better, but at least I said it.

10. There is a world of difference between active euthanasia, and refusing to use machines to prolong a life on its way out

11. It’s easy to go down the rabbit hole on the “euthanasia issue”. From comments above, it appears we’re halfway down the hole. I have just one thing to offer: please ALWAYS make a clear distinction between euthanasia (administering lethal substances to bring about the end of life) and withdrawal of futile care. I am a clinical pharmacist, who has worked in hospitals for 36 years. I now see that much of our society seems to have forgotten that we are mortal – and, with no financial pressure to help them make a prudent decision (thank you taxpayers!), many family members elect to torment Grandma beyond belief by DEMANDING that EVERYTHING be done that medical science can imagine. (recent example: 96 year-old demented, contracted female with feeding tube from nursing home with new vaginal bleeding. Work-up suggested cervical cancer, for which hysterectomy and chemotherapy were requested by family).
    Under pressure from our liberal society and hospital administrators who want to avoid negative stories on the evening news, it is a rare doctor who will speak the truth to the families of the terminally ill…and, of course, there is usually still money to be made (thank you, taxpayers!).
    Sorry, didn’t mean to rant, but wanted to make clear my opinion as a Christian and as a health care professional: rational withdrawal of futile care IS NOT euthanasia. It is merely accepting the fact that we are mortal, and stepping aside so that God’s will can be done (without additional, medically-induced suffering). Though not necessarily a part of the moral argument, the fact that our taxpayer-supported health care “system” is rapidly going broke suggests that the HUGE portion of our health care dollars spent during the final weeks of life should be carefully assessed – being careful to avoid the topic of euthanasia, but considering more realistic, humane, and affordable options, such as hospice care.
    Just my 2 cents worth…

    1. My point exactly, just better explained. Thank you.
       Euthanasia, no. Letting nature take its course, no objections.

12. Euthanizing Children

    Is there a difference between that and the thousands of abortions performed everyday in the good old U.S.A. ???

13. Oh good grief…….I really wondered if I should wander into the fray of euthanasia. Okay, here goes. My mother was a nurse:compassionate, caring, and gentle with all of her patients. She did pediatrics, oncology, and ER over the years (30+). She also dealt with a lot of nutty family members. One gentleman had brain cancer: he was the chief cinematographer on a John Wayne movie shot in Utah when all of the above ground nuclear testing was going on. His bitchy, obscene wife would come in and scream at him to “just die and get it over with! You’re bleeding me dry!!” Needless to say, this woman was severely restricted in her access to the husband. Other family members would deny reality, cry and moan and ask “what else can we do”?? This is hard on patients, family members, and medical staff. You have to find a balance between compassion, reality, and belief. There is a window to life, once it closes, only God can open it.
    The most amazing gift that my mother left me, was the dignity of dying. She had congestive heart failure-that she bravely battled for 5 years. She also had non-Hodgkins lymphoma that was almost impossible to treat because of her heart failure. She had a brain stem stroke 4 days before she died, but amazingly came out of it. (A brain stem stroke is the worst stroke that you can have.) When the doctors came in, and told her that they either needed to intubate her, that she would probably never get off of the tubing, never be able to be out of bed again, and most likely would die anyway-she refused treatment. I, of course, was in severe denial and upset. The Grace of God: she was able to talk some sense into me. She said, “if I cannot work in my garden, play with my dogs, or cook a good meal-then this isn’t living. I know where I am going from here. Don’t be afraid”. I was blessed that one of us was strong.
    Dying with a sense of blessing and dignity is not euthanasia. Murder is wrong, and just as abortion is murder, actively killing a person is murder. End of life should be a patient-family decision; and the “state/gov” needs nowhere in the equation. It has always been my anger toward socialized medicine. And doctors and nurses shouldn’t have the screws put to them from either side. I had a good friend who died of ALS at age 36. If she had been in the Netherlands, she’d have been killed. Thankfully, her doctors and insurance went all out for her.
    This is a tough subject. I pray that we are all in God’s hands everyday.

14. While everyone is cognizant, able and maturely clear thinking they should have an Advanced Medical Directive prepared. This resolves a lot of emotional, family guilt, issues, etc. It is horrible to watch an elderly parent suffer in a nursing home or hospice bed with life sustaining tubes coming out of every orifice….there is no dignity in that for the patient or family. It takes courage to make a responsible decision. Show some.

15. I believe there are times when euthanasia is appropriate with limits. Most important it needs the informed consent from the patient. If the patient didn’t make the request it shouldn’t happen, but physician assisted suicide has a place in the compassionate care of end of life patients. I watched my father die a painful death from lung cancer. His medical care was good, he controlled his care, he eventually decided the treatments were worse than the cancer and that the outcome was not going to change so he chose to enter a good hospice. The hospice had a skilled staff of nurses and doctors. They allowed him to die with dignity. They tried their best to minimize his pain and he was given the potent pain killers but I can guarantee he was in PAIN. Our body can still be alive with pain that no drugs available can control. I don’t believe its humane nor consistent with Christ’s message of love to force a person to die in pain because of some interpretation of the rules. Some might say he wasn’t properly treated but my father was a medical doctor and my mom has a masters in nursing so they knew the questions to ask, what care was needed, and what good care consisted of.

16. Another wrinkle to consider. What would your life be like if you were accidentally paralyzed, unable to talk, move muscle or communicate with the world, breathing on a machine, say trapped in a vegetable state alive, thinking, but unable to do anything? What would it be like if you had an itch but couldn’t scratch it, or your back was sore but you couldn’t role over? I wouldn’t want to live but I would have no way to end my life.

17. Greg made the best and last point of all that needs to be considered. Thanks Greg.

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