James,
In response to “Suburban Survival, by The Suburban 10” [1] posted on April 10th: I expect that the author will receive a lot of feedback on what he considers ‘Security’. Based on his erroneous assumptions on the role and proper use of a firearm in a suburban TEOTWAWKI [2] situation, I can conclude that he is among the anti-Second Amendment crowd. Living in New York under the Bloomberg/Schumer cloud has obviously affected him.
That being said, I shouldn’t have been so surprised when he wrote:
“8. I have friends who are police officers and have never fired their weapon in the line of duty. Do you really want to shoot someone? I train my family for a chaotic attack. We have code words and all have set actions when the code word is mentioned. No matter how crazy things get remember that everything is negotiable. Have a planned system for dealing with a threat other then sending bullets all over the neighborhood. If you can offer an item or two to the desperate individual (who may truly need help) then do so. If they really look like trouble or if they are armed then at least have pepper spray ($11.99 per can here in New York). If you are going to shoot someone, then expect to be shot at as well.”
a) Police officers in the line of duty are not being attacked for their food (or other goods) by hungry, desperate people, but you (Suburban 10) will be.
b) “Do you really want to shoot someone?” Well, if they are attacking my family or looting our means of survival in a desperate situation, that is a resounding yes.
c) Code words and “set actions” Huh? Will they function when Mr. Murphy, of Murphy’s Law fame comes a-calling? Not likely. And be very careful with ‘set actions’ because when your plan starts to unravel, what then?
c) Everything is negotiable?! Are you kidding me? (Okay, deep breaths…) Many of those you should expect to face will have already shot you – and your family – before your first word is uttered.
d) Plenty (if not most of us) who read this blog have trained to do a whole lot better than to ‘send bullets all over the neighborhood’. Besides, that would waste ammo.
e) If you can offer an item or two to the desperate individual and do so, you should expect to be attacked for the rest. Maybe not immediately but they will return – that’s why charity through a Third Party is the way to go. And what if you cannot offer anything to these ‘desperate individuals’? Do you think they will shrug their shoulders and walk away?
f) If they are armed, and you are planning to use pepper spray? Your plan is going to get your family raped, killed and eaten.
g) “If you are going to shoot someone, then expect to be shot at as well.” — I can understand the “Live by the sword, die by the sword” sentiment but I have news for you Suburban 10, playing nice with the desperate, hungry zombies is not going to keep them from shooting at you. You should be expecting to be shot at regardless.
“Protection – The Lord gave us our eyes, ears and intuition.” — Yes He did. But he also gave you the right, (no scratch that…) the obligation to defend yourself and your family by any means necessary. Our Second Amendment recognizes and affirms that God-given right. You owe your family a lot more than pepper spray and positive thinking.
Good luck Suburban 10, you’re going to need it.
James,
In response to Suburban 10 his ideas are good, except weapons for self defense (I’ve also trained in Aikido with a 3 foot wooden staff. I would imagine it would work great for dogs if you had that issue and it is better then nothing, but not by much) and at 8 feet with a shotgun his weapon is out of reach and his life and all his possessions will be someone else’s in a matter of seconds. I would say that if you came at me with a stick and I had a shot gun it wouldn’t be much of a fight.
He really needs to rethink that people will be dealt with by talking about compromise when they are cold, hungry and what-ever might happen happens. I am happy he shared his views, and only a psycho wants to shoot someone else or be shot- it’s nothing anyone wants to do. but it would seem that criminal elements know a show of force and weakness being shown will end up being an easy mark for someone or a group of armed people intent on taking something for nothing.
I also taught New York City (NYC) youths at a Job Corps, and know most people are generally good, but the gang elements are everywhere and underestimating them is a major mistake for urban survival. (The good news is without city lights most of these guys are afraid of the woods at night and won’t stray far from the main roads if things get bad.) No one should ever tell me I can’t defend myself when my life is in danger- nothing is off limits in that case, and the only people who will tell you ‘you should not use a gun for self defense’ is someone political that probably has armed guards to protect themselves. I value and note the anti-gun opinion. It is valiant but naive. If you have ever had more then one attacker assault you, then you will totally understand where I am coming from. Personally it’s not even from a place of fear, it’s more about being realistic and having a chance standing against someone physically bigger and stronger or someone more advanced in martial arts. People can only wake up to the reality of what it means to be beaten and or be defenseless in a life or death situation.
On the same note taking to a friend, his brother who is an ex-convict for armed robbery discussed how in his mind he didn’t need to prepare for anything. He stated that he would adapt as his neighbors had a nice 4WD [3] that would be his when he took it from them, other people had food that they would part with when he would give them the choice of food or life (and even got the idea that after taking the 4WD he would rob the nearest gun shop by backing in to it and stealing anything and everything he could carry.) thinking that criminals aren’t going to be armed after the world changes is not only delusional it is a dangerous underestimation of the worst in human elements at large. Do I think that he’d actually rob people and stores for survival in an TEOTWAWKI [2] situation? I don’t know but I can’t discount how his mind works and his talk about it when we discuss preparing for the worst.
Suburban 10: Please get an inexpensive shotgun and learn about safety and how to use it–that is if you are legally allowed to have your Second Amendment in the suburbia of New York– the worst of the worst out there are not going to stop and talk about things like ‘sharing’ with you when they think you have something they want. They will kill you and anyone that gets in their way to get what ever they feel entitled to. This was created by the culture the Federal government is still making today with programs of entitlements for anyone that doesn’t want to work.
BTW, the reason the police haven’t pulled their firearm out in the line of duty is because they have one [in plain view] on their body while dealing with bad people every day. (And most smart criminals don’t want to be shot ever by someone that is armed- they will find easy pray every chance they get.) You never hear about unarmed police doing the job, even in England where they were not armed they carry guns for their protection now! Criminals don’t want to risk getting hurt or killed when they can steal from a defenseless old lady or man next store. Don’t make yourself an easy target for the thugs out there by not thinking that some form of arms shouldn’t be in the house. I also know that if you have kids you might have concerns over their safety, that is a matter of parenting properly and controlling your arms and ammo, and controlling your children. Another friend of mine had in the past more than 20 guns and his 8 year old daughter has gone with him to the range shooting (safely) her Cricket .22. She listens to her mom and dad and they all understand gun safety–such as keeping ammo away from the guns and items secure so she’s not able to make any mistakes. He loves his daughter and wants more then anything for her to be a survivor, and self sufficient in a world of people ingrained to be dependent on others. (Safes, locks and secure areas are only part of the safety- teaching your kids about gun safety and giving them knowledge means ensuring their survival on a lot of levels.) Some of my friends that defected from NYC left great paying jobs to escape the pressures of having their kids deal with drugs, gangs and crime.
I know a lot of NYC people who have defected from socialist controlled NYC for more freedom out in the eastern Pennsylvania area. Sadly some of them have brought their NYC anti-gun bias thinking and bad logic with them to an area where the gun culture is in full swing. Most people in this area know that if someone robs a homeowner they risk being shot and crime for the most part is way lower then in the cities here in the woods. – Fitzy in Pennsylvania
Jim,
The teacher who wrote this letter seems to be serious enough about survival preparation, but he seems to eschew firearms or any weapon more effective than a walking stick or pepper spray. I believe he is overestimating the decency of mankind and his control over chaotic situations. There are some people you simply cannot negotiate with. They will take what you offer and then torture your family to death for the fun of it. The veil of civilization is thin and humans have a dark side. If law enforcement disappears and the fear of being punished disappears with it, a small percentage of people will behave very badly. The first group of looters he encounters are likely to have him for lunch. He sounds like exactly the kind of prey the predators will be looking for.
His preparations sound pretty good for a regional problem or any temporary service interruption. They should also prove handy in a depression or decline where the grid stays (mostly) up and law enforcement are on the job, but without a more comprehensive defensive plan, he is depending on law enforcement to keep the big bad wolf away. If he has done a risk assessment and really believes that there will never be a total meltdown, his preps are good enough.
But, just in case things turn ugly, I would encourage him to at least get hold of a shotgun and load it with bird shot. His dog will warn him that a gang of looters has invaded his property, but then what? Call the police? If no police are coming or the phones don’t work, then he will be out of options. If looters want what’s behind door number one (his safe room), they will break the door down and take it. Pepper spray is not an effective defense. Any non-lethal defense [used on better-armed opponents] will likely provoke an escalation of violence rather than end it. Negotiating with hungry people is much safer if there is the threat of force to back it up. Trying to survive TEOTWAWKI [2] in suburban New York will be a real challenge anyway. I would hate to try it unarmed.
Given his circumstances, it sounds like he has done well. Taking it to the next level necessary to survive a total meltdown will be much more expensive. Relocation is probably the only viable prep he can make for the worst case scenario. If civilization totally breaks down and a significant portion of the population are doomed to starve, his current situation is likely to be untenable. I believe living in the shadow of any major city could turn out to be a death sentence. As a teacher, his job moves with him much easier than most professions. Since I believe in the possibility of TEOTWAWKI, If I were caught in his circumstances, I would consider moving to a small town in Idaho or somewhere similar. – JIR
Mr. Rawles-
I admire that the writer has personal convictions, but not everything is negotiable. The safety and welfare of my family is one on those [non-negotiable] things. No, I don’t have weapons because I want to shoot someone. I would like to believe that the weapons are a deterrent and might convince a bad guy to look elsewhere. Unfortunately the bad guy will look to a target that is not defended.
I know ownership of firearms is restricted in some locales, but I don’t think pepper spray will dissuade an armed person intent on having their way. It is kind of like the old joke about bringing a knife to a gunfight.
I dare say that a preparedness plan that does not include a means for security and defense is nothing more than a stockpile waiting for a new owner that does have a gun. That would-be new owner probably doesn’t have much in the way of negotiation skills. – Gordon in Georgia
Sir:
There’s probably been a rash of letters regarding the rather hopeful advice of “The Suburban 10”, but I’ll add my two cents worth…
For one, dispensing charity from your front door is surely an invitation to a worst case scenario, especially if you are relying on pepper spray (at best) to defend your children. Talk about “bringing a knife to a gunfight”!
Secondly, while i have previously advocated small dogs for a number of reasons, they are ill advised in this situation. After a week of barking, people will wonder: “Where is that dog getting its food?”
This letter seems to assume that things will get bad, but never “bad bad”. It’s a serious gamble, no matter how many “code words” you have.
If you plan to survive in the suburbs with no guns you really have to strip your house bare (like it’s been picked through) and live in your panic room. Then, when a real intruder arrives they might assume there is nothing left of value, but you might want to keep a rabbit’s foot, a lucky penny and keep you fingers crossed while you’re at it. Kind Regards, – Bodes
Suburban 10:
I can appreciate the plan that you outlined here. You are among the 10% that are doing something. You have a great approach. However, I say this with the greatest respect, Learn about firearms. As you will recall, when Jesus was in the garden before they took him. Peter attacked the Roman guard and cut off his ear. Jesus healed him. He didn’t tell Peter to disarm. And Jesus knew Peter was armed. Why do you think this event played out like that.? Because Evil needs to be resisted. With Prayer yes, but with action too. Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple. He didn’t pray them out. I respectfully suggest you and your family learn about firearms. They are the sword of our times. Doesn’t mean you have to use them. If you have one and know how to use it, you have a choice. If you don’t have one or don’t know how to use one, you will have no choice. Just my opinion, but the world is a better place with you and your family in it. – Brad S.